Big XII North needs a bailout

[shockball]

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=100

[rrshock]

It definitely isn't what it used to be by any means.

[ShockerGorilla]

Is the Big XII not so big anymore?!!

:clap: :yahoo: :P

[WuDrWu]

Is Frank Martin the 2nd best coach in the north? :shock:

[fuball7]

i would call him the best right now. Self is a recruiter not a coach. he routinely gets outcoached by teams. His teams never run plays out of timeouts or at least never execute them and if you throw a zone at them they have no clue what to do.

I cant stand kstate either but i love how physical they play. martin looks like a more all around coach right now to me

[rrshock]

I think Martin probably is the best all-around coach in the North. We all bashed K-State's decision for the contract and all, but it is appearing to have been a good move.

[SubGod22]

The jury is still out on Martin as far as I'm concerned. He was handed a couple of lottery picks. Most of us could have coached them to an NCAA tournament. Although, if his assistant keeps handing him the best of the DC team he should have success.

I'd take Self over anyone else in the North. I know recruiting isn't the toughest thing at KU but he does a pretty good job with everything else. And has shown the ability to do it elsewhere too.

[ShockerGorilla]

He was handed a couple of lottery picks. Most of us could have coached them to an NCAA tournament.

I'd take Self over anyone else in the North.

If Self was such a good coach, wouldn't KU be undefeated this year? A great coach would not lose to those types of teams, especially at home.

[SubGod22]

He's playing with a bunch of first year players as well. He only returned one player who was any kind of contributor last year.

Are you saying Marshall is a bad coach? We're going through the same thing KU is right now with a lot of turnover and little experience.

I'd be surprised if KSU finishes ahead of KU in the B12.

[vbird53]

i would call him the best right now. Self is a recruiter not a coach. he routinely gets outcoached by teams. His teams never run plays out of timeouts or at least never execute them and if you throw a zone at them they have no clue what to do.

I cant stand kstate either but i love how physical they play. martin looks like a more all around coach right now to me

Oh, come on. You've got to be kidding. Did Bill Self not win big at ORU and Tulsa? Did he have lottery players there? Did he not restore an Illini program that had been dormant for years? Did he not win a national freaking championship at KU, a place that good ole' Roy Boy couldn't do the same?

Get real.

I can't believe I even had to write this.

[fuball7]

i would call him the best right now. Self is a recruiter not a coach. he routinely gets outcoached by teams. His teams never run plays out of timeouts or at least never execute them and if you throw a zone at them they have no clue what to do.

I cant stand kstate either but i love how physical they play. martin looks like a more all around coach right now to me

Oh, come on. You've got to be kidding. Did Bill Self not win big at ORU and Tulsa? Did he have lottery players there? Did he not restore an Illini program that had been dormant for years? Did he not win a national freaking championship at KU, a place that good ole' Roy Boy couldn't do the same?

Get real.

I can't believe I even had to write this.

do you watch ku games? a great example would be the davidson game last year. the team outplayed ku, was outcoached, its just that ku had 5 NBA draft picks on the same team. Thats the only reason they won. KU won because of the talent Self recruited. Self called several TOs then the team came out and looked lost. Davidson would call a TO then come out and get an easy basket.

Yes self did do all the things you say, but you can do that if you can recruit. He recruited better athletes than anybody else at the levels he was at. Im not saying he cant coach completely but when i watch any games coached by him I never see a team with a definite game plan or a team that is able to adjust in game.

[vbird53]

i would call him the best right now. Self is a recruiter not a coach. he routinely gets outcoached by teams. His teams never run plays out of timeouts or at least never execute them and if you throw a zone at them they have no clue what to do.

I cant stand kstate either but i love how physical they play. martin looks like a more all around coach right now to me

Oh, come on. You've got to be kidding. Did Bill Self not win big at ORU and Tulsa? Did he have lottery players there? Did he not restore an Illini program that had been dormant for years? Did he not win a national freaking championship at KU, a place that good ole' Roy Boy couldn't do the same?

Get real.

I can't believe I even had to write this.

do you watch ku games? a great example would be the davidson game last year. the team outplayed ku, was outcoached, its just that ku had 5 NBA draft picks on the same team. Thats the only reason they won. KU won because of the talent Self recruited. Self called several TOs then the team came out and looked lost. Davidson would call a TO then come out and get an easy basket.

Yes self did do all the things you say, but you can do that if you can recruit. He recruited better athletes than anybody else at the levels he was at. Im not saying he cant coach completely but when i watch any games coached by him I never see a team with a definite game plan or a team that is able to adjust in game.

Recruiting happens to be a major part of the college game. Perhaps even more important than Xs and Os. Maybe Bill's got that figured out.

He's got a national title. He'll probably get another before he retires. That puts him into a very, very small group of outstanding individuals.

Oklahoma State was willing to pay him over $3 million per year, Kansas matched that. Somebody thinks he can coach.

[fuball7]

i would call him the best right now. Self is a recruiter not a coach. he routinely gets outcoached by teams. His teams never run plays out of timeouts or at least never execute them and if you throw a zone at them they have no clue what to do.

I cant stand kstate either but i love how physical they play. martin looks like a more all around coach right now to me

Oh, come on. You've got to be kidding. Did Bill Self not win big at ORU and Tulsa? Did he have lottery players there? Did he not restore an Illini program that had been dormant for years? Did he not win a national freaking championship at KU, a place that good ole' Roy Boy couldn't do the same?

Get real.

I can't believe I even had to write this.

do you watch ku games? a great example would be the davidson game last year. the team outplayed ku, was outcoached, its just that ku had 5 NBA draft picks on the same team. Thats the only reason they won. KU won because of the talent Self recruited. Self called several TOs then the team came out and looked lost. Davidson would call a TO then come out and get an easy basket.

Yes self did do all the things you say, but you can do that if you can recruit. He recruited better athletes than anybody else at the levels he was at. Im not saying he cant coach completely but when i watch any games coached by him I never see a team with a definite game plan or a team that is able to adjust in game.

Recruiting happens to be a major part of the college game. Perhaps even more important than Xs and Os. Maybe Bill's got that figured out.

He's got a national title. He'll probably get another before he retires. That puts him into a very, very small group of outstanding individuals.

Oklahoma State was willing to pay him over $3 million per year, Kansas matched that. Somebody thinks he can coach.

i agree that recruiting is a huge part of the game. he does just enough x and o's to win. I just know there are alot of coaches that get alot more out of there players and are better in game managers.

Self has been very successful but i dont think that makes him a great coach. That is my opinion. And one that i know is shared by quite a few ku fans. Last year about this time ku fans were saying if he didnt do such in such in the tourney they would want to replace him. Its amazing what one year can do. I went to the KU game actually tonight and they acted like he was god when he walked onto the court. Amazing how quick people forget.

[SubGod22]

i would call him the best right now. Self is a recruiter not a coach. he routinely gets outcoached by teams. His teams never run plays out of timeouts or at least never execute them and if you throw a zone at them they have no clue what to do.

I cant stand kstate either but i love how physical they play. martin looks like a more all around coach right now to me

Oh, come on. You've got to be kidding. Did Bill Self not win big at ORU and Tulsa? Did he have lottery players there? Did he not restore an Illini program that had been dormant for years? Did he not win a national freaking championship at KU, a place that good ole' Roy Boy couldn't do the same?

Get real.

I can't believe I even had to write this.

do you watch ku games? a great example would be the davidson game last year. the team outplayed ku, was outcoached, its just that ku had 5 NBA draft picks on the same team. Thats the only reason they won. KU won because of the talent Self recruited. Self called several TOs then the team came out and looked lost. Davidson would call a TO then come out and get an easy basket.

Yes self did do all the things you say, but you can do that if you can recruit. He recruited better athletes than anybody else at the levels he was at. Im not saying he cant coach completely but when i watch any games coached by him I never see a team with a definite game plan or a team that is able to adjust in game.

Recruiting happens to be a major part of the college game. Perhaps even more important than Xs and Os. Maybe Bill's got that figured out.

He's got a national title. He'll probably get another before he retires. That puts him into a very, very small group of outstanding individuals.

Oklahoma State was willing to pay him over $3 million per year, Kansas matched that. Somebody thinks he can coach.

i agree that recruiting is a huge part of the game. he does just enough x and o's to win. I just know there are alot of coaches that get alot more out of there players and are better in game managers.

Self has been very successful but i dont think that makes him a great coach. That is my opinion. And one that i know is shared by quite a few ku fans. Last year about this time ku fans were saying if he didnt do such in such in the tourney they would want to replace him. Its amazing what one year can do. I went to the KU game actually tonight and they acted like he was god when he walked onto the court. Amazing how quick people forget.

Fans are fickle. Most don't think things through at all and go off of nothing more than gut reaction.

[beatmu]

Thanks, guys. Its been a long day and I needed a good laugh.