Sports Bars

[ABC]

The ignorant and repetitive nature of your posts suggest you may have lost this one.

Are you still talking to yourself?

Nice input Smokey.

I don't think I've ignored anyone, nor have I been repetitive nature. Have my general ideas been the same? Absolutely.

It just gets boring having a discussion and then the opponent can't fight anymore and just starts fading away..

But again, thanks for your input. Looks like you've accepted defeat as well.. :yes:

Defeat? Please.

There's no reconciling our differences here.

You want government to coerce behaviour to your standards. I do not.

Could smokers avoid you? Sure they could. I hope they do. I just don't want government fiat to force it. Nor do I want government to force you to avoid them. You can avoid them or you can breath in the sweet smoke from one of nature's finer plants - your choice.

And you are inconsistent, since you don't seem to care about transfat or speed limits and probably about 1,000 other things.

[ABC]

Why can't you avoid the smoke? Because it is too inconvenient?

Smoke is visible and avoidable

Many times smoke is unavoidable when I am trying to walk into work (a local hospital) and there are 2 or 3 smokers surrounding the entrance -- and right beside them is a big fat "No Smoking" sign. Should I stop, drop, & roll through the door?

Sounds like you should bring it up with the hospital administration.

What's stopping you ?

[ShockerFever]

You're repeating the same thing again.

You ignored a couple people's very good points about drugs and the government. Why should the government get involved with other health hazards - marijuana, cocaine, etc..

So basically what you're saying is - who needs laws?



And it's been pointed out a myriad of times already that your 'transfat and speed limits' arguments have no ground. Read this slowly and let it sink in: EATING TRANSFATS MAY HURT THE PERSON WHO IS CONSUMING THEM, BUT IT DOES NOT EFFECT THE HEALTH OF OTHERS, UNLIKE SMOKING WHICH DOES EFFECT THE HEALTH OF OTHERS. Hopefully, if you read it slowly enough, you will realize how stupid you sound when you constantly bring it up.

[fastbow]

Why can't you avoid the smoke? Because it is too inconvenient? Why do you want government to regulate so much behaviour? Are you so obese that you can't walk around people who are smoking?

Every door around Lindquist has at least one smoker at it when I have to go to class. Do you suggest that I be late for every class I have so the smokers can have their special time?

Or what should I do about my girlfriend? She has a documented allergy to secondhand smoke. Until the no-smoking laws passed, she couldn't come and watch games with me at AJs. Do you suggest that she be denied the ability to go anywhere there are smokers?

(Yes, she is a WSU student, but has no classes in most of the smoking hotbeds. Can't avoid McKnight though...)

[ABC]

You are equating smoking with doing heroin and cocaine? Really?

Driving fast doesn't put other people at risk? Why won't you answer that?

You aren't winning any arguments here. I guess I have to repeat things b/c you don't seem to understand the simple point.

You want government to coerce behaviour and I don't.

What else is there to discuss? We have to agree to disagree on that point.

[ABC]

Why can't you avoid the smoke? Because it is too inconvenient? Why do you want government to regulate so much behaviour? Are you so obese that you can't walk around people who are smoking?

Every door around Lindquist has at least one smoker at it when I have to go to class. Do you suggest that I be late for every class I have so the smokers can have their special time?

Or what should I do about my girlfriend? She has a documented allergy to secondhand smoke. Until the no-smoking laws passed, she couldn't come and watch games with me at AJs. Do you suggest that she be denied the ability to go anywhere there are smokers?

(Yes, she is a WSU student, but has no classes in most of the smoking hotbeds. Can't avoid McKnight though...)

So, watching games at AJs is so important that the government needs to protect this right?

Are you suggesting that smokers have no right to go where your girlfriend is? Get real.

Also, it sounds like you and your girlfriend have an issue with the WSU administration. Let me know what they say when you present this dilemma. Or if you are in shape, hold your breath during the 8 seconds it takes to walk through a doorway.

[kcshocker11]

You are equating smoking with doing heroin and cocaine? Really?

Your right thats not fair to heroin and coke they kill far fewer people per year than ciggie smoke! :whistle: 8)

[rayc]

ShockerFever:
Nice input Smokey.

What are you talking about?

I don't think I've ignored anyone, nor have I been repetitive nature. Have my general ideas been the same? Absolutely.

General ideas?

Your total ideas expressed seem to be: “blah, blah, blah … and furthermore I can go anywhere I want and do anything I want and everyone else will have to accept it.” And of course that just keeps getting repeated as a reply over and over and over ….

It just gets boring having a discussion and then the opponent can't fight anymore and just starts fading away..

I don’t recall having a discussion with you. You want to talk about what? I did say it was not a smoking issue with me, rather a personal rights/business rights issue.

Do you really want to have a discussion on your individual constitutional rights as they relate to smoking/non-smoking? I’ll give it a shot if you like.

I did make a statement that the statistics relating to smoking “related” are manufactured – they are. Perhaps you would prefer a discussion to defend the stats you like to allude to?

Cut and paste will not work here, you will have to explain and defend any and all stats you post, I of course will do the same except I will be on the attack. Merely regurgitating a talking point will not suffice.

If so, I’m game. I could be wrong. You have a chance to make a case on this one, some of the numbers are legitimate, smoking truly is unhealthy, but alas some are not. And of course, they have to include the ones that are very, very dubious to get the social impact they want, especially on second hand smoke. That is the problem and is what you will be expected to defend. Remember, it’s not to be a discussion on whether smoking is healthy or not – it’s not – it’s a discussion on the validity of the numbers they use to push their agenda, which doesn’t seem to be public health or they would just outlaw the sale of tobacco.

I love this challenge because all I have to do is show one dubious number and I win, you will have to rigorously defend them all! A couple of advance things for you to start working on a defense for: Why do you consider the multiple counting of a single death in your statistics as legitimate? Why, if say 20% of the population had green eyes and 20% of the people committing suicide had green eyes, no one would claim the green eyed people committing suicide did so because of their eye color, yet change eye color to smoking and committing suicide to say strokes and your statistics often do just that.

But again, thanks for your input. Looks like you've accepted defeat as well..

I always let the other person have the last say, makes them feel better.

[ShockerFever]

Your 'stats' are one-word answers. Is that really your defense?

Thanks for bumping this back up. I figured it was on its way down the toilet of off-topic crap.

[fastbow]

Why can't you avoid the smoke? Because it is too inconvenient? Why do you want government to regulate so much behaviour? Are you so obese that you can't walk around people who are smoking?

Every door around Lindquist has at least one smoker at it when I have to go to class. Do you suggest that I be late for every class I have so the smokers can have their special time?

Or what should I do about my girlfriend? She has a documented allergy to secondhand smoke. Until the no-smoking laws passed, she couldn't come and watch games with me at AJs. Do you suggest that she be denied the ability to go anywhere there are smokers?

(Yes, she is a WSU student, but has no classes in most of the smoking hotbeds. Can't avoid McKnight though...)

So, watching games at AJs is so important that the government needs to protect this right?

Are you suggesting that smokers have no right to go where your girlfriend is? Get real.

Also, it sounds like you and your girlfriend have an issue with the WSU administration. Let me know what they say when you present this dilemma. Or if you are in shape, hold your breath during the 8 seconds it takes to walk through a doorway.

Smokers have no right to disrupt the normal lives of asthmatics and allergics. It is the government's responsibility to protect the public health, and allowing smoking in public places does not do this.

This issue has already been brought to WSU administration. They talked about it, the Sunflower wrote a few editorials, and then they buried the issue.

Hold my breath? I already DO that. What about my clothes? I don't like smelling like an ashtray. I sit next to other students who smell like ashtrays. It's disgusting. I don't want to smell like that...

[ShockerFever]

fastbow, it's hard arguing with people who support anarchy and don't believe in the whole 'having laws' concept.

But another few slam-dunk points.

[kcshocker11]

Not to mention those who earn their living in a particular field. I guess the privilages of drug addicts are far more important than the individuals right to a safe and healthy work environment.