Republicans grasping for straws...

[rayc]

and rayc, those are the religious right whackjobs to which I refer. McCain lost me when he started sucking up to the extreme religious right, is that more palatable? I have a legit fear that Sarah P is one of those idiots.

Well you may have a fear, but I'm not so sure how legit it is. You come across to me as if only an absolute condemnation of all things religious would suffice to have qualified McCain as not sucking up and that of course is silly.

I'm not sure you don't share the same neighborhood as those religious right whackjobs you refer to. But I am sure that you believe you have a clearer view from your pedestal than they from their pulpit. Oh well ...

[SHOCKvalue]

I'm not sure you don't share the same neighborhood as those religious right whackjobs you refer to.

Is there a high concentration of said "whackjobs" in San Antonio, shockdawg?

[shockdawg]

Religion has brought us great works of beauty, acts of selfessness, love for our fellow man. I don't condemn that and I hope and pray that you don't either.
My questions are still out there, your cues are: dinosaurs, age of the earth, and fossils. Am I a "dim bulb" for asking these questions?
Peace be with you and God bless you.

[rayc]

My questions are still out there, your cues are: dinosaurs, age of the earth, and fossils. Am I a "dim bulb" for asking these questions?

Yes

[shockdawg]

cute but dodgy

dinosaurs, fossils, age of the earth, come on rayc

[RoyalShock]

dawg, there really is no good reason to answer your question since you've made it abundantly clear your goal is to express disdain for people you have labeled as idiots.

That said, I'll answer your question.

Old earth. Millions of years prior to the creation of man, which occurred in our present form.

Dinsosaurs. Existed. Perhaps prior to the creation of man or after. Bible references a "behemoth" and since no scientist has ever observed one, making a determination of their temperaments is difficult, at best.

Fossils. Either occurred due to time between creation of animals and man. Or created due to catachismic global event, like, oh say, a flood.


I view science as the exclusive work of an omnipotent God, and in light of scripture. I don't believe that an eye, or the brain, or reproductive systems, or any other complex anatomical systems evolved or that God employed natural selection during creation. I find the whole theory logically flawed and I'm dead set in my view.

I'm a weak, gullible, unintelligent, idiotically close-minded, religious nut of a right-wing Christian whackjob. At least, that's what the evangelical atheists would call me.

[shockdawg]

and that would be unfair. by the way I did not start the calling of people as "idiots", I agreed with it as described when I mentioned Gov Palin, and yes I do find her an idiot as idiot was described by "rayc". My initial point mentioned straying from McCain as a possibility when he chose her. I'm really done with this, take care and may we all be pulling in the same direction tomorrow post election.

[rayc]

shockdawg:

cute but dodgy

dinosaurs, fossils, age of the earth, come on rayc

Actually, not dodgy at all. YOU are the one to bring up "dinosaurs, fossils, age of the earth", YOU are the ONLY ONE that seems intent on trying to push some issue here that doesn't appear to exist except in your mind. And if that is not dim, it certainly is not exactly bright.

Perhaps you would prefer to enlighten us on how it all scientifically BEGAN and explain how the reliance on "faith" and "belief" your explanation will ultimately require differs from anothers religious "belief" and "faith". Can you?

Ultimately everyones belief on a beginning is grounded on some "faith" or "belief" in something beyond the explainable/verifiable. Even those who claim "it has always existed", which is obviously nothing more than a "belief" in itself, not much different than a claim that "God" has always existed.

Or perhaps the collapse of all known matter into a point mass, a totally imaginary concept of course but seemly one acceptable without the blink of an eye. Then of course the evil follow up question of "what was there before that? - or has it merely "always existed"?

We are talking about the beginning, so tell me how it began, without having to base it on something called "faith" or "belief".

[SubGod22]

dawg, there really is no good reason to answer your question since you've made it abundantly clear your goal is to express disdain for people you have labeled as idiots.

That said, I'll answer your question.

Old earth. Millions of years prior to the creation of man, which occurred in our present form.

Dinsosaurs. Existed. Perhaps prior to the creation of man or after. Bible references a "behemoth" and since no scientist has ever observed one, making a determination of their temperaments is difficult, at best.

Fossils. Either occurred due to time between creation of animals and man. Or created due to catachismic global event, like, oh say, a flood.


I view science as the exclusive work of an omnipotent God, and in light of scripture. I don't believe that an eye, or the brain, or reproductive systems, or any other complex anatomical systems evolved or that God employed natural selection during creation. I find the whole theory logically flawed and I'm dead set in my view.

I'm a weak, gullible, unintelligent, idiotically close-minded, religious nut of a right-wing Christian whackjob. At least, that's what the evangelical atheists would call me.

I wish I had all the research my friend did. There are no facts out there that say the viewpoint you described is wrong. There are theories which most of science push, but nothing proven. I have a friend that got his degree from WSU and his plan was to study history and science to show the Bible could in fact be shown to have happened through science. Or something like that. There are actually a number of scientists who have come up with theories and shown the real possibility that what you described could in fact have happened like that, or very similar. I'll have to see if I can find out some of his research materials but it was quite interesting to hear and he put a lot of work into it. But that was 6 or 7 years ago and I don't recall everything. But there are working theories to support it.

[t7017s]

I think the question is... "Which came first the chicken or the egg?" Clearly the only correct answer is... Depends on who you ask. Lets move on shall we.

[jocoshock]

When I was a student at WSU, my anthropology professor was also an ordained minister.

He saw no conflict in discussing creationism and evolution and did not push one over the other. There was room for intelligent discussion in the class even if intelligent design was not part of the curriculum.

Way too much hyperbole in the off-topic forum. I don't know where people comu up with these polarizing opinions.

:whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: 8) 8) 8) 8)

[ShockBand]

I do believe God created the heavens and the earth. How did he create them? Any way He wanted to. I will say even though I believe God created the universe, I cannot support the insertion of supernatural explanations as part of science, as that is not what science is about. To some of you, that may make me seem conflicted, trust me I am not. Faith is not supposed to need proof, faith isn't geometry.

[McShocker]

I do believe God created the heavens and the earth. How did he create them? Any way He wanted to. I will say even though I believe God created the universe, I cannot support the insertion of supernatural explanations as part of science, as that is not what science is about. To some of you, that may make me seem conflicted, trust me I am not. Faith is not supposed to need proof, faith isn't geometry.

Well put. I will add that I do not believe God would provide us with scientific evidence that would lead us away from the truth as a test of our faith. I have no problem calling myself an evolutionist and a creationist at the same time. The evidence for evolution is overwhelming. The evidence for any "scientific" creation theory (Big bang, etc.) is shaky at best.

[rrshock]

I do believe God created the heavens and the earth. How did he create them? Any way He wanted to. I will say even though I believe God created the universe, I cannot support the insertion of supernatural explanations as part of science, as that is not what science is about. To some of you, that may make me seem conflicted, trust me I am not. Faith is not supposed to need proof, faith isn't geometry.

Well put. I will add that I do not believe God would provide us with scientific evidence that would lead us away from the truth as a test of our faith. I have no problem calling myself an evolutionist and a creationist at the same time. The evidence for evolution is overwhelming. The evidence for any "scientific" creation theory (Big bang, etc.) is shaky at best.

Agreed. I just see too much scientific proof of evolution. I also believe that God did create the earth. But those 6 days in the book of Genesis weren't that short of a period of time. That's how I think about it. I think that it took thousands of years for god to create his masterpiece and that is where evolution comes in for me.

[rayc]

This time unit called a "day" is defined in terms of the Earth's revolution. An Earth that was not in existence at the beginning, thus the unit WE refer to as a day, i.e. the time of a single revolution of the Earth, did not exist, was not known, and can not be the same thing as the "day" refered to in Genesis. Besides, the Earth's daily revolution is not constant in time, it's always slowly changing and surely God would not choose an inexact time reference like that. :)

I suspect the original Old Testament word probably refered to a generalized time period. A better translation for the modern era could possibly be "period" or "stage".

I have always believed that the 6 days of creation were the steps or stages of creation - and not necessarily of equal duration, not 6 - 24 hour periods.

Likewise, things like Adam & Eve to me, do not reflect God creating a modern man and woman and placing them on the Earth, but merely the stage during which He planted the seeds (or provided conditions for life to develop if you prefer) that would result in humans when the Earth was ready for them. etc. etc. ... I'm not much of a literalist as you can tell, but to each his own. The story of creation as told in Genesis probably made a lot more sense for the people of that era than a treatise by Darwin.

All just my humble opinions, of course.