Joe the Plumber - Obama Tax Plan Infuriates Me

[engrshock]

Lets say currently a household with a taxable income of approximately $250000 pays approximately $80000 and a household with a taxable income of $80000 pays $6000 and a household with an income of $20000 pays $1000. In a flat tax system, no deductions allowed, of 15% the tax bill is $37500, $12000 and $3000. Clearly the lower income tax paid will be a higher percentage and the upper income level will be considerably less but everyone is paying their "fair share". Also clearly the household making the least is making a larger contribution to the tax revenue. If personal deductions are allowed for each person in a family (say $5000) are added the difference may be less the low income level and still higher for the middle income and much lower for the the upper income.

This assumes that 15% will cover the tax revenue needed. From what I have seen with the "Fair Sales" tax the rate would be 28% to 33% to obtain the same tax revenue.

With respect to these tax amounts what is fair? Is it fair to expect the lower and middle income to contribute a greater percentage of their income when they have less to live on than a person with a greater income? If so then by all means do so. But most middle class people that want this have to realize that their taxes will be raised to cover the loss of tax revenue for the higher income classes barring some miracle and the federal and state governments actually cut their spending dramatically. Fat chance of that.

[WuDrWu]

I don't see why there is so much objection to a flat rate income tax, provided that:

1. Everyone has a reasonable and fair amount exempted, perhaps set at 150% of the current poverty line. This of course would be adjusted annually as necessary.

2. The flat rate set on taxable income is subject to absolutely NO other deductions or exemptions, and I mean NONE.

3. Reduce the tax code and return system to such a simple level that 90% or more of the bureaucracy of the IRS is no longer needed.

I'm no economist or tax expert, but I would think the simplicity would have great appeal to many people. It would eliminate or at least reduce the argument that the rich can shield and shelter income from taxes.

As for Joe, I feel for him in that he doesn't want a tax increase, but to me, if you gross $250,000 a year, you aren't middle class, at least not by my standards. My wife and I are in the upper five digits in gross income, and I consider us to really be upper middle class. Maybe its because my folks never made more than 30,000 a year combined ever, but a quarter million a year is rich in my book, at least for around here and in most parts of the country.

That kind of common sense and reasonable thinking has absolutely no place in any discussion that includes government.

[1979Shocker]

He has applied to take his license and will do so in the near future. In Ohio, he needs to have the license to own the business, which he is planning to acquire.
His license isn't the focal point here. His point about being penalized for aiming and achieving success is the real deal.
And he's right. 8)

I don't know if he'd be able to buy the business while only making $40K a year.

Why would he be penalized? Under the Obama tax plan a person making $40K a year would see their taxes drop $500.

[RoyalShock]

1979, I posted an excerpt from a story in another topic, but there is something about paying the taxes on the business earnings via his personal income tax filing. Not being a businessman or tax pro, I don't understand how it works.

[ABC]

Nearly all small businesses and many that you don't think are so small, are "sub S" businesses.

That means all profits flow to the shareholders tax return and they pay income tax at the individual level, not at the corporate level.

There is a limit to the number of shareholders in a company to be eligible for sub s status.

So, you might be a shareholder and an employee in a sub S company. Your salary might only be $50,000 but you will be taxed on the profits of the company.

[RoyalShock]

Thanks, ABC.

That's part of the problem with election politics. The "average Joe" (like me, in this case) doesn't understand the underlying details.

[wxkid23]

I don't see why there is so much objection to a flat rate income tax, provided that:

1. Everyone has a reasonable and fair amount exempted, perhaps set at 150% of the current poverty line. This of course would be adjusted annually as necessary.

2. The flat rate set on taxable income is subject to absolutely NO other deductions or exemptions, and I mean NONE.

3. Reduce the tax code and return system to such a simple level that 90% or more of the bureaucracy of the IRS is no longer needed.

I'm no economist or tax expert, but I would think the simplicity would have great appeal to many people. It would eliminate or at least reduce the argument that the rich can shield and shelter income from taxes.

As for Joe, I feel for him in that he doesn't want a tax increase, but to me, if you gross $250,000 a year, you aren't middle class, at least not by my standards. My wife and I are in the upper five digits in gross income, and I consider us to really be upper middle class. Maybe its because my folks never made more than 30,000 a year combined ever, but a quarter million a year is rich in my book, at least for around here and in most parts of the country.

Not everyone lives in Kansas...actually very few do. 250k doesn't cut it in more popular states like California and Florida and many other high demand places. 90k in California would probably put you at the bottom of the middle class if that. How easy it is for people to forget that Kansas is one of the cheapest places in America to live and that a high income here doesn't often equal a high income elsewhere. "Most" places around the country that is the majority of the population (near the coast) im pretty sure 250k is not rich. I don't understand why people wanting to live somwhere nice that is in high demand should be punished.

[Maggie]

All I have to say is that the media assault on this guy is maddening.

This guy actually hit a cord with my wife – who was raised in Hudson County, New Jersey – if that means anything to you people.

If I was Joe – I would be going nuts.

[ShockBand]

True, wx, there are places in the country where cost of living is higher, even dramatically higher. However, I'd be willing to say that 90%+ of the people in this country someone making 250K a year wealthy, regardless of location. You would feel different if you made 250K and the Joneses you're trying to keep up with make 500K, I'll grant you that.

[ShockRef]

All I have to say is that the media assault on this guy is maddening.

This guy actually hit a cord with my wife – who was raised in Hudson County, New Jersey – if that means anything to you people.

If I was Joe – I would be going nuts.

Thank you.
As soon as they determined he wasn't in their corner, the liberal muckraker and slander machine was is in full gear against "Joe the Plumber."
If he doesn't toot their horn, the liberal Modus Operendi is degrade, humiliate and slander the person who dares to take an opposing view.
The nerve of Joe the Plumber. What was he thinking!!! 8)

[ShockBand]

True, ShockRef, but there are plenty on the right who do much the same with someone who has an opposing view. This is the sad state of "governing" that has blossomed over the past decade or so.

[Wuzee]

All I have to say is that the media assault on this guy is maddening.

This guy actually hit a cord with my wife – who was raised in Hudson County, New Jersey – if that means anything to you people.

If I was Joe – I would be going nuts.

Thank you.
As soon as they determined he wasn't in their corner, the liberal muckraker and slander machine was is in full gear against "Joe the Plumber."
If he doesn't toot their horn, the liberal Modus Operendi is degrade, humiliate and slander the person who dares to take an opposing view.
The nerve of Joe the Plumber. What was he thinking!!! 8)

If you've got a problem with the media coverage, take it up with McCain, who dragged Joe's sorry butt into the middle of a national campaign without asking him first. I know life would be much easier for you if the media would just accept GOP spin at face value and print it. Thankfully for the country, they don't.

[AZ Shocker]

I read that Joe The Plumber has a web-site and is being offered 6 figures by multiple buyers for it.

So perhaps he will get closer to raising the funds to purchase that plumbing business. lol

[ShockBand]

I read that Joe The Plumber has a web-site and is being offered 6 figures by multiple buyers for it.

So perhaps he will get closer to raising the funds to purchase that plumbing business. lol

Now there's using your internets! :lol: Why not cash in on his 15 minutes of fame?

[shocrates]

The party of tolerance strikes again!