Joe the Plumber - Obama Tax Plan Infuriates Me

[WuDrWu]

By the way, it is NEVER discussed that it's even in the realm of POSSIBILITY that the 40% of the populace that does not pay .01 of federal income tax could step to the plate and contribute even a pittance.

Frankly, to me it seems fair that everyone should kick in, if only a few dollars.

[RoyalShock]

By the way, it is NEVER discussed that it's even in the realm of POSSIBILITY that the 40% of the populace that does not pay .01 of federal income tax could step to the plate and contribute even a pittance.

Frankly, to me it seems fair that everyone should kick in, if only a few dollars.

And what about those who get back much more than they paid in?

"Don't steal. The government hates competition."

[rrshock]

And what about those who get back much more than they paid in?

You mean all those people in the very top that have figure out how to dance around things? :)

Or are they just breaking even with losses from business and stuff?

[MadaboutWu]

By the way, it is NEVER discussed that it's even in the realm of POSSIBILITY that the 40% of the populace that does not pay .01 of federal income tax could step to the plate and contribute even a pittance.

Frankly, to me it seems fair that everyone should kick in, if only a few dollars.

There's a ton of regressive taxes, i.e. taxes that charge people with lower income a higher percentage than they charge those with a higher income. Sales tax, sin taxes, taxing capital gains at a lower rate than income, and first and foremost payroll taxes (I pay 7%; someone making a million pays .7% because he is not taxed after the first $100,000.

Basically the only tax that is progressive, charging those with a higher income a higher percentage, is the income tax. However, a large dose of regressivity is built into that as well. For instance, people can deduct interest payments on not only the mortgage on their first house but also on their second. But renters, like me, get no similar deduction. There are lots of similar regressive features to the tax code. (I don't mind the first house deduction but the second kind of ticks me off).

The average salary for plumbers and pipefitters, according to cnn, is $47,500 by the way. Probably very few indeed make $250,000 every year.

[RoyalShock]

And what about those who get back much more than they paid in?

You mean all those people in the very top that have figure out how to dance around things? :)

Or are they just breaking even with losses from business and stuff?

I would be intrested in seeing an instance of someone "at the top" getting a personal income tax refund check that was larger than the amount collected from them by the IRS. I just have a hard time believing that.

Here is what I'm talking about:

But the most disingenuous part of his tax plan is his claim that he will give 95 percent of all American workers a "tax cut," because he does not mention that it will mean sending checks to millions of tax filers who pay no personal income taxes.

Critics say that looks "suspiciously like welfare" or income redistribution from wealthier taxpayers to lower-income Americans. But it also raises the question, How can he call it a "tax cut" when its recipients pay no income taxes?

Under his "Making Work Pay" income tax cut for low- to middle-income people, he will give a "refundable" $500 tax credit to low- to middle-income workers or $1,000 to couples. It would begin to phase out at $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 for a couple.

But because he makes it "refundable," he will pay the equivalent amount to those who have no income-tax liability after taking the usual tax credits and deductions in the tax code. Those checks would come from taxes to be paid by higher-income Americans.

The Internal Revenue Service says nearly 46 million tax filers -- one-third of all filers -- had no tax liability in 2006, so you can hardly call this a tax cut because they pay no taxes.

http://townhall.com/columnists/Donal...k_like_welfare,

MadaboutWu, the linked article also says this:

If you run a small business that earns $250,000 or more and you pay taxes on its earnings as an individual taxpayer (though you pay yourself less than that), you will be hit by his higher income tax.

[1979Shocker]

Not that it means anything, but Joe the Plumber says he doesn't have a plumber's license since he's not the owner of the business. Maybe it's different where he works. I'm not for sure, but I think it's required here. Any plumbers out there that know for sure?

It's different in Ohio, so says Joe.

'Joe the Plumber' says he has no plumbing license

HOLLAND, Ohio (AP) — Joe the Plumber said Thursday he doesn't have a license and doesn't need one. Joe Wurzelbacher, better known as Joe the Plumber, the nickname Republican John McCain bestowed on him during Wednesday's presidential debate, said he works for a small plumbing company that does residential work. Because he works for someone else, he doesn't need a license, he said.

But the county Wurzelbacher and his employer live in, Lucas County, requires plumbers to have licenses. Neither Wurzelbacher nor his employer are licensed there, said Cheryl Schimming of Lucas County Building Regulations, which handles plumber licenses in parts of the county outside Toledo.

[rrshock]

Not that it means anything, but Joe the Plumber says he doesn't have a plumber's license since he's not the owner of the business. Maybe it's different where he works. I'm not for sure, but I think it's required here. Any plumbers out there that know for sure?

It's different in Ohio, so says Joe.

'Joe the Plumber' says he has no plumbing license

HOLLAND, Ohio (AP) — Joe the Plumber said Thursday he doesn't have a license and doesn't need one. Joe Wurzelbacher, better known as Joe the Plumber, the nickname Republican John McCain bestowed on him during Wednesday's presidential debate, said he works for a small plumbing company that does residential work. Because he works for someone else, he doesn't need a license, he said.

But the county Wurzelbacher and his employer live in, Lucas County, requires plumbers to have licenses. Neither Wurzelbacher nor his employer are licensed there, said Cheryl Schimming of Lucas County Building Regulations, which handles plumber licenses in parts of the county outside Toledo.

Uh-oh! I thinks we has a problem. :)

[TxShox]

He also owes state income taxes...

Records on file with the Lucas County Court of Common Pleas show that the state filed a tax lien against Samuel Joesph Wurzelbacher (Joe's full legal name) for $1,182.98 on Jan. 26, 2007, and it remains in effect.

http://cbs5.com/campaign08/joe.the.plumber.2.842355.html

[ABC]

And who cares about these "allegations"?

[ShockRef]

He has applied to take his license and will do so in the near future. In Ohio, he needs to have the license to own the business, which he is planning to acquire.
His license isn't the focal point here. His point about being penalized for aiming and achieving success is the real deal.
And he's right. 8)

[AZ Shocker]

His license isn't the focal point here. His point about being penalized for aiming and achieving success is the real deal.
And he's right. 8)

Exactly.

[Maggie]

For your review:

http://www.spectator.org/archives/2008/10/16/searching-for-obamas-95-percen

[SubGod22]

I do know a couple of small business owners that aren't very excited about an Obama Presidency for the reasons mentioned in this thread.

[RoyalShock]

According to the debate I saw last night, Joe the Plumber is an imaginary friend of McCain that lives under his bed in a cigar box with Simon the unicorn.

Oh, and Simon will NOT hold a cabinet position, but Joe will be appointed head of the newly created Dept. of Plumbing.

[ShockBand]

I don't see why there is so much objection to a flat rate income tax, provided that:

1. Everyone has a reasonable and fair amount exempted, perhaps set at 150% of the current poverty line. This of course would be adjusted annually as necessary.

2. The flat rate set on taxable income is subject to absolutely NO other deductions or exemptions, and I mean NONE.

3. Reduce the tax code and return system to such a simple level that 90% or more of the bureaucracy of the IRS is no longer needed.

I'm no economist or tax expert, but I would think the simplicity would have great appeal to many people. It would eliminate or at least reduce the argument that the rich can shield and shelter income from taxes.

As for Joe, I feel for him in that he doesn't want a tax increase, but to me, if you gross $250,000 a year, you aren't middle class, at least not by my standards. My wife and I are in the upper five digits in gross income, and I consider us to really be upper middle class. Maybe its because my folks never made more than 30,000 a year combined ever, but a quarter million a year is rich in my book, at least for around here and in most parts of the country.