Karl Peterjohn is a moron.

[C0|dB|00ded]

So there is economic growth when population is still decreasing?

That is interesting math.

And let me repeat, a shift is not economic growth.

He's talking about stemming the tide of contraction with fiscal stimulation. Why do you have to be so hard-headed about this? Perhaps it's something else...


T


...8)

[C0|dB|00ded]

I love how facts are misdirection.

Wyandotte County is an interesting place. Fairfax loses jobs for lots of reasons, including their high tax burden. And actually I don't know that the Fairfax district is the biggest loser ; it could be other areas of KCK. The data available is county-wide and isn't divisible by district.

The GM plant there has been doing fine. I think they've had other industries that have gone throught the normal ebb and flow of markets.

Most of Legends' infrastructure is subsidized, but clearly Cold doesn't really care about government spending money on corporate welfare projects.

Meanwhile, Wyandotte County has fewer people than just a few years ago and 30,000 fewer people than in 1970.

Can someone remind me what government assistance the Waterfront is receiving?

Cold, you act like you are some sophisticated businessman. - so surely you know what a market signal is.

Being free-market is anti-government in the mind of a big-government type like Cold of course.

I'll take that over being anti-fact.

Cold, you act like you are some sophisticated businessman. - so surely you know what a market signal is.

Yeah, like college grads leaving town as if their asses were on fire?

Urban sprawl has been the trend for several decades. It has recently changed and more are interested in the core of their cities leaving their suburban lives for something more urban. This trend is evidenced by all the major surrounding cities of Wichita. Wichita's downtown is/was in need of major infrastructure improvements as well as a plan to link current and future "cultural areas/centers" to each other in order to develop a synergy that will yield big private investment and job creation.

Whether public dollars preceding private dollars in cultural development is morally, ethically, or philosophically right can be debated, but it certainly has been effective in OKC, Tulsa, Omaha, Little Rock etc.

Historically private investment follows public investment at a 2:1 ratio. I have no problem with the arena because it was voted on and the majority approved it.

Being free-market is anti-government in the mind of a big-government type like Cold of course.

No, free-market isn't anti-government unless you are talking about free-market without regulation.

If you don't want to be labeled a wacko, stop aligning yourself with a social deviant like Peterhead; a man who still calls the arena a "white elephant" when it has already proven to be a winner.


T


...8)

[RoyalShock]

I understand how added tourism will put more money into the city's coffers. But if population is decreasing while more business and attractions are popping up (ie. Speedway, Cabelas, Great Wolf, etc.), where are the additional workers coming from?

Was unemployment so high that it could provide the necessary workforce?

Are they coming in from other counties? If so, wouldn't much of the payroll going to those people get spent outside WyCo?

I would guess that many of the jobs being created (if we're talking shopping and entertainment) are not of the upper middle-class variety, correct?

I'm not leading anywhere with the questions, just trying to get a clear picture.

[kcshocker11]

I understand how added tourism will put more money into the city's coffers. But if population is decreasing while more business and attractions are popping up (ie. Speedway, Cabelas, Great Wolf, etc.), where are the additional workers coming from?

Was unemployment so high that it could provide the necessary workforce?

Are they coming in from other counties? If so, wouldn't much of the payroll going to those people get spent outside WyCo?

I would guess that many of the jobs being created (if we're talking shopping and entertainment) are not of the upper middle-class variety, correct?

I'm not leading anywhere with the questions, just trying to get a clear picture.

Unemployment was higher than normal, Employees mostly from greater KC(Housing being developed to fit demand close to area)

Some payroll going to other counties, but doubt the majority is.

Mixture of types of jobs. High quality retail sales, rest & bar jobs, hotel, security, office jobs, marketing , admin as well as constructionetc.

I have the plans for future developments, north and west and some east. Many more Hotels, office parks and even talks of an arena etc.(you see I own a fair portion of land in zone b(less than 1/2 mile from track))

This has and will continue to be a huge plus for WYCO and the State of Kansas. This includes tax revenue, image development, jobs, etc.

When gambling was talked about the first site mentioned was Legends.
Casino jobs are good paying, great jobs with nice benies. This will be a destination.

WYCO was dying on the vines! Only poor and elderly stayed. It is amazing to see the change especially when so many said it couldnt be done!








8)

[C0|dB|00ded]

I understand how added tourism will put more money into the city's coffers. But if population is decreasing while more business and attractions are popping up (ie. Speedway, Cabelas, Great Wolf, etc.), where are the additional workers coming from?

Was unemployment so high that it could provide the necessary workforce?

Are they coming in from other counties? If so, wouldn't much of the payroll going to those people get spent outside WyCo?

I would guess that many of the jobs being created (if we're talking shopping and entertainment) are not of the upper middle-class variety, correct?

I'm not leading anywhere with the questions, just trying to get a clear picture.

Unemployment was higher than normal, Employees mostly from greater KC(Housing being developed to fit demand close to area)

Some payroll going to other counties, but doubt the majority is.

Mixture of types of jobs. High quality retail sales, rest & bar jobs, hotel, security, office jobs, marketing , admin as well as constructionetc.

I have the plans for future developments, north and west and some east. Many more Hotels, office parks and even talks of an arena etc.(you see I own a fair portion of land in zone b(less than 1/2 mile from track))

This has and will continue to be a huge plus for WYCO and the State of Kansas. This includes tax revenue, image development, jobs, etc.

When gambling was talked about the first site mentioned was Legends.
Casino jobs are good paying, great jobs with nice benies. This will be a destination.

WYCO was dying on the vines! Only poor and elderly stayed. It is amazing to see the change especially when so many said it couldnt be done!








8)

WYCO was dying on the vines! Only poor and elderly stayed.

But KC, that was one of them thar market signal thingies that ABC educated us all on. That was the "free-market" telling us to let WYCO die. The wrong choice was certainly made. Don't you agree?


T


...8)

[kcshocker11]

WYCO was dying on the vines! Only poor and elderly stayed.

But KC, that was one of them thar market signal thingies that ABC educated us all on. That was the "free-market" telling us to let WYCO die. The wrong choice was certainly made. Don't you agree?


T


...8)

WYCO still has many hills to climb! Its nice to see development and movement in the positive direction. I might even move back from Mo. (after I vote of course).:D 8)

[ABC]

Most of the employees are from outside of Wyandotte County.

Arenas and public infrastructure can help the immediate areas where they are located - but there is very little evidence that these projects increase wealth in the overall community. You have shifts.

As the Kansas Legisaltive Post-audit study pointed out, Legends has grown at the expense of other areas. Just be honest about it.

If and when the casino opens, you will see restaraunts close in Northern JoCo and possibly even the legends. You'll see more shifts.

As for the rest of Wyandotte County outside the West Village, nothing has changed and it has probalby gotten poorer with more population loss.

There's loads of research on this as it pertains to professional franchises and their stadiums and arenas.

The market signal was that this development won't work w/o tax subsidies and that's what created the Speedway and the retail development. And typcially when government interjects itself so direclty in a marketplace it creates winners and losers. Subsidies are not the same as regulating the free market.

Cold, at least you are getting close to just admitting you are a corporate welfare fan.

[ABC]

I understand how added tourism will put more money into the city's coffers. But if population is decreasing while more business and attractions are popping up (ie. Speedway, Cabelas, Great Wolf, etc.), where are the additional workers coming from?

Was unemployment so high that it could provide the necessary workforce?

Are they coming in from other counties? If so, wouldn't much of the payroll going to those people get spent outside WyCo?

I would guess that many of the jobs being created (if we're talking shopping and entertainment) are not of the upper middle-class variety, correct?

I'm not leading anywhere with the questions, just trying to get a clear picture.

Most of the employees are from outside KCK and you are correct most of the jobs are not high paying; they are service jobs.

[ABC]

Ok lets try this. City A who is growing in pop builds an airport using tax rev. . As a result several airlines begin flights to city A. One is happy with central location builds a hub. Jobs createdby airlines, building built by workers, supplies shipped in by transportation, landscaping, new streets built by workers etc etc etc 8)

Airports are public goods, shopping centers are not.

Public goods usually follow demand by the public, just as you describe. Public goods usually don't created demand. All of the lightly traveled, high quality, roads in Kansas are a good example of that.

[shockmonster]

Two stories about Peterjohn and his extreme views. He is against every tax even when it doesn't apply to his residence. The first story happened a few years back shen the Goddard school district needed another school because of huge growth. They encountered an anti-tax campaign with signs, etc. When they investigated who was behind this campaign, it was Peterjohn who didn't even live within the school boundaries. He is always against a tax even when it is someone else's issue. The second story was when he slanted the story against Gregory for Goddard raising taxes. Goddard's budget was figured on a city with 1100 (give or take a little) citizens but the city grew to over 3,000 citizens so they raised taxes to increas police presence, roads, etc. for more citizens (this resulted in a modest tax increase). Peterjohn criticized her for it.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Peterhead is a snake in the grass. He gives those of us with an education in economics a bad name.


T


...8)

[rrshock]

On the WYCO topic that this has turned into, it seems to be alot like Butler, Harvey, Sumner and Cowley counties. They are all, for the most part, bedroom communities. The area I live in is nothing but a farming/bedroom Community. Benton, Towanda, El Dorado (mostly), Andover, Augusta, Rose Hill, Potwin, Whitewater, Walton, Burrton, Sedgwick, Halstead, Newton (mostly), Wellington, Winfield, Udall, Belle Plaine, Oxford and so on and so on are all bedroom communities.

Most of the money that the residents make are spent in Wichita. They get their shopping done before they come home from work. They buy their cars there, and they go to entertainment there. Just because the people don't live in Sedgwick county doesn't mean that they don't spend their money there. Alot of small towns have lost their grocery stores and other ammenities because of this very thing.

If Wichita and Sedgwick county put tax dollars towards bringing in businesses and entertainment venues, they aren't gonna lose on the deal. The people from all around spend quite a bit of money in Wichita. They don't have to live there to do that.

If WYCo has figured out a way to keep the area going, then that is great. Just because they have to rely on people from outside the county, doesn't mean that they won't benefit from it. You have to spend money to make money in business. That is all that the county is doing, or so it appears to me.

[kcshocker11]

On the WYCO topic that this has turned into, it seems to be alot like Butler, Harvey, Sumner and Cowley counties. They are all, for the most part, bedroom communities. The area I live in is nothing but a farming/bedroom Community. Benton, Towanda, El Dorado (mostly), Andover, Augusta, Rose Hill, Potwin, Whitewater, Walton, Burrton, Sedgwick, Halstead, Newton (mostly), Wellington, Winfield, Udall, Belle Plaine, Oxford and so on and so on are all bedroom communities.

Most of the money that the residents make are spent in Wichita. They get their shopping done before they come home from work. They buy their cars there, and they go to entertainment there. Just because the people don't live in Sedgwick county doesn't mean that they don't spend their money there. Alot of small towns have lost their grocery stores and other ammenities because of this very thing.

If Wichita and Sedgwick county put tax dollars towards bringing in businesses and entertainment venues, they aren't gonna lose on the deal. The people from all around spend quite a bit of money in Wichita. They don't have to live there to do that.

If WYCo has figured out a way to keep the area going, then that is great. Just because they have to rely on people from outside the county, doesn't mean that they won't benefit from it. You have to spend money to make money in business. That is all that the county is doing, or so it appears to me.

Nicely put, I didnt want to waste my time responding to well you know! 8)

[ABC]

One shopping area in KCK isn't remotely comparable to the communities of El Dorado et al as it related to the jobs they have in Wichita.

KCK is the 3rd largest city in the State and Wyandotte County is the 3rd or 4th largest County.

Outside the one retail area, most of WyCo is still dying.

And it is a retail area. There aren't high paying jobs.

[/code]

[kcshocker11]

http://kansascity.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2007/08/20/focus2.html?jst=s_cn_hl

The Kansas Speedway made a splash when it opened in 2001, followed by the adjacent Village West tourism district, and the economic benefits are rippling throughout the county.

"They have attracted new development, and they have started to put new property tax money into the government coffers that is being reinvested in the community," said Cindy Cash, president of the Kansas City, Kan., Area Chamber of Commerce.

Kansas Landmark Tower
Description: The structure, designed to resemble a tornado, is slated to have a five-star, revolving restaurant, banquet facility and observation deck on three levels 650 feet high. The tower will be located in Edwardsville southwest of Interstates 70 and 435. The project will be home to a working farm resembling the one in the movie "The Wizard of Oz." It also will have 100 square feet of retail space, a miniature golf course and an arcade. All facilities are expected to have a weather and Oz theme.
Size: The 1,000-foot tower will be one of the largest in the nation, taller than the St. Louis Gateway Arch, the Seattle Space Needle and the Statue of Liberty. It will be located on 100 acres.
Value: $250 million
Major players: Developers, Tom and Diane Overbee of Landmark Tower LLC; leasing agent, Block & Co. Inc. Realtors; engineer and architect, Crawford Architects; construction manager, Pete Vegelahn; general contractor, Walton Construction Co.; attorney, Norman Gaar
Timeline: Construction is set to begin in the fall and take about 15 months.
Interest in the project: The project's Web site has gotten hits from 25 countries, and the tower will be highlighted in the summer in a Russian architectural magazine, Diane Overbee said.

New Market at Village West
Description: The New Urbanism project just west of Interstate 435 and south of Leavenworth Road will be the site of 900 homes, 151 apartments, three hotels and 480,000 square feet of grocery, restaurant and mixed-use retail and office space.
Size: 168 acres
Value: $200 million
Major players: Developer and builder, T.E. Woods Construction; lead architect, 180 Degree Design Studio LLC; broker, Sedlock Commercial Real Estate; engineer, Affinis Corp.
Timeline: The first phase of the project, which includes the initial development of curbs, roads and pad sites, is almost complete, said Tom Woods of T.E. Woods Construction.
Site mobility: Woods said that the vast amount of green space on the site makes it a walkable community.

Schlitterbahn Vacation Village
Description: A water park, a marine park complex, a mile-long river walk with shops and restaurants, a 300-room hotel, cabins and resorts. The location spans from State Avenue north to Parallel Parkway, and Interstate 435 east to 94th Street.
Size: 376 acres
Value: $749 million
Major players: Most of the project participants have not been officially announced, but one of the financing partners will be Entertainment Properties Trust.
Timeline: It is expected that several of the entertainment components, including the Family Entertainment Center, the Wilderness Village and part of the water park, will open around the spring of 2008 and that some of the retail sites also will open in 2008. Other attractions, hotels, the Retail Village and the Riverwalk Entertainment District will open in 2009.
Latest update: Jeffrey Siebert, corporate communications director for Schlitterbahn, said that a groundbreaking will be announced within the next couple of months, at which the company will publicize the development partners and retail sites for the project.

Speedway Plaza Redevelopment District
Description: A retail and restaurant development district at 108th Street and Parallel Avenue, just north of The Legends at Village West. Retail partners that have agreed to locate there are Wal-Mart, Best Buy and Office Max.
Size: About 100 acres
Value: $190 million
Major players: Developer, First National Development; broker representing the landowners, Sedlock Commercial Real Estate; brokers representing the buyers, Block & Co. Inc. Realtors and Classic Real Estate
Timeline: Construction is set to begin later this year or early in 2008 and will be completed in phases during 2008 and 2009.
Avoiding competition: David Block of Block & Co. said that most of the tenants are service and necessity businesses so they won't compete with those at Village West.

Sport World Live
Description: The project, which is proposed in the area where Interstate 435 meets the Missouri River, could include a 6,500-seat arena, more than three dozen athletic fields, two hotels, a motorcross track, almost 1 million square feet of retail space and an office park.
Size: 1,500 acres
Value: About $1 billion
Major players: Developer, Kansas City Development Group of Kansas City, Kan., LLC; financial partner, The Macenta Group LLC
Timeline: The land was approved for tax increment financing by the Unified Government of Wyandotte County/Kansas City, Kan., in late June. Craig Chambers of the development group said the group will be working on a project plan to present during the next 90 to 120 days.

705 million Hard Rock casino, hotel and entertainment proposal adjacent to Turn Two at the Speedway.

$3.094 bil new projects

http://www.kmbc.com/news/17560576/detail.html?rss=kc1&psp=news

$100 mil made per race with second race a strong possiblitiy

http://www.kansascitykansan.com/state_news/x1424438793/Fans-abuzz-about-possibility-of-a-second-NASCAR-race

Yep ABC that Govt intervention sure screwed up! Looks like the market signal was right!

Oh I wont bother to tell you about many other proposels, lets just say acreage here is selling by the square ft.( Most over $10 per square ft)

PS Your wrong about the jobs too!


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