Karl Peterjohn is a moron.

[ABC]

I'm not sure who is arguing against the arena.

This discussion is partly about Cold's assertion that government building a bunch of stuff equals wealth creation and economic growth.

And the best he can back up his point of view is well, not much. But that's not really a surprise, is it? Facts? Who needs 'em when Cold is involved.

Even for an internet message board that's pretty weak.

[C0|dB|00ded]

I'm not sure who is arguing against the arena.

This discussion is partly about Cold's assertion that government building a bunch of stuff equals wealth creation and economic growth.

And the best he can back up his point of view is well, not much. But that's not really a surprise, is it? Facts? Who needs 'em when Cold is involved.

Even for an internet message board that's pretty weak.

I'm not going to spoon feed you..

http://www.okc.gov/about_okc/index.html

T


...8)

[C0|dB|00ded]

Why do people still argue against the arena? It was a democratic election. Isn't that the way that it is supposed to work? You and Peterjohn should be in agreement for a referendum to build an arena.

Apparently ABC aligns himself tightly with Peterhead. That is a very sad thing...

Basically what Peterhead wants, and it appears ABC as well, is for Wichita to continually lower taxes regardless of the cultural needs of the people. Wichita should keep the water clean and the streets smooth -anything else is graaaaavy...

During the arena election Peterhead was absolutely RABID over the arena vote. The intensity in his campaign derived from something WAYYYY beyond fiscal issues. He was using EVERY scare tactic in the book and was pushing all the right buttons with Wichitan's. If it wasn't for us on the arena campaign BUSTING our asses, going door to door, speaking to the media, businesses, etc., Wichita would look very different than it does right now. I'm pretty proud of my contributions to that campaign. Wichita will forever be changed.

I don't think even Peterhead as a county commissioner can slow Wichita down at this point.


T


...8)

[ABC]

I'm not going to spoon feed you..

http://www.okc.gov/about_okc/index.html

T


...8)

Thanks. A link facts do not make. But that's the depth we come to expect from your cogent arguments.

Are you still asserting that government building stuff equates to economic growth?

http://thegoodcity.wordpress.com/2007/09/13/hip-to-be-harrison-square/

Let me give you a hint. If you want to argue that arenas are good for communities (like Wichita) because intangible benefits or that a modern public arena is a civic responsibility of the governing bodies, I won't take issue with it. But you have zero facts to say that an arena means economic growth. So just quit. It's an argument you can't defend and you've shown you can't defend it.

[kcshocker11]

I'm not going to spoon feed you..

http://www.okc.gov/about_okc/index.html

T


...8)

Are you still asserting that government building stuff equates to economic growth?

Been to Legends Village West in WYCO?

http://www.legendsshopping.com/

http://racing.ballparks.com/Kansas/index.htm

8)

Financing The state issued approximately $71.3 million in tax increment financing (TIF) bonds, approximately $24.3 million in sales tax special obiligation revenue (STAR) bonds, $33 million for infrastructure, $6 million from economic development funds. The STAR bonds are paid with state and local taxes generated from facility revenue; TIF bonds will be paid in annual payments of $4.8 million to $7.7 million, in lieu of property taxes; the remainder is from private funding.

I was recently told this is one of the hottest development areas in the US.

or The Sprint Center
Been to the new Power and Light District in KCMO



8) 8)

[ABC]

I've spent a lot of money at Legends - but it didn't grow the pie.

The State did a study that concluded that Nebraska Furniture Mart for instance, caused two or three other furniture stores to close.

That's not growth. That's shifting.

[kcshocker11]

I've spent a lot of money at Legends - but it didn't grow the pie.

The State did a study that concluded that Nebraska Furniture Mart for instance, caused two or three other furniture stores to close.

That's not growth. That's shifting.

Even if that is true, how do you explain the hundreds of stores, e,g, Cabellas, T-bones baseball, theaters, the Hardrock Casino, Schliterbaun, Hotels, strip mails, restuarants etc.

It just keeps growing! And please I am in a unique position comment on this area.

Plus Neb Furn sells nationwide, local stores only sell to the immediate area.

You stated you shopped there. Well theres outside revenue that didnt exist.

WYCO is on the comeback because of govt intervention
I for one say thank you Carol Marinavich and the Unified Govt
8)

[ABC]

And population in WY county continues to drop, as do the number of jobs.

For every job being create at the Legends, it appears that high-paying manufacturing jobs are leaving the Fairfax district.

Where's the net economic growth again?

If furniture stores are closing in Johnson County, than one can reasonably conclude it is impact restaraunts in JoCo too.

A shift is not growth.

[DUShock]

ABC's point should not be underscored and merits discussion. Redistribution is not a solution nor is handouts. An honest to goodness cost benefit analysis should ALWAYS be conducted with little to no use of multipliers in determining a good investment of public dollars. Multipliers should only be considered as a footnote externality but not as part of the payoff. IMHO.

[rrshock]

Weren't most of the jobs that have been lost in the Fairfax district automotive type jobs? There were lots of those up there, but with the auto market, one would have to believe that there have been lots of those jobs lost.

Plus as long as companies keep moving their production to Mexico and Asia, all areas are going to continue to lose industrial type jobs.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Weren't most of the jobs that have been lost in the Fairfax district automotive type jobs? There were lots of those up there, but with the auto market, one would have to believe that there have been lots of those jobs lost.

Plus as long as companies keep moving their production to Mexico and Asia, all areas are going to continue to lose industrial type jobs.

That's correct. ABC will try to win his anti-government position at all costs and that includes misdirection.

American manufacturing is going through a necessary change that has been happening for a long time. Our econcomy is too developed to rely on labor intensive inputs. Low-skilled work is going to other countries or willl be done by machines. Those that continue to fight this trend (*AHEM* Boeing strikers) and don't reeducate themselves will feel the full force of the changing economy. America must oursource these inefficient jobs to continue to compete and grow the GDP. There are still plenty of pieces of the American pie for everyone, but not much more for Joe Smith who works an honest shift out at the plant. The sad thing is, the direction of our country is not moving towards more education, it is moving towards less.
The two trends I have discussed here will collide and we will continue to see the income gap widen.


T


...8)

[ABC]

I love how facts are misdirection.

Wyandotte County is an interesting place. Fairfax loses jobs for lots of reasons, including their high tax burden. And actually I don't know that the Fairfax district is the biggest loser ; it could be other areas of KCK. The data available is county-wide and isn't divisible by district.

The GM plant there has been doing fine. I think they've had other industries that have gone throught the normal ebb and flow of markets.

Most of Legends' infrastructure is subsidized, but clearly Cold doesn't really care about government spending money on corporate welfare projects.

Meanwhile, Wyandotte County has fewer people than just a few years ago and 30,000 fewer people than in 1970.

Can someone remind me what government assistance the Waterfront is receiving?

Cold, you act like you are some sophisticated businessman. - so surely you know what a market signal is.

Being free-market is anti-government in the mind of a big-government type like Cold of course.

I'll take that over being anti-fact.

[kcshocker11]

And population in WY county continues to drop, as do the number of jobs.

For every job being create at the Legends, it appears that high-paying manufacturing jobs are leaving the Fairfax district.

Where's the net economic growth again?

If furniture stores are closing in Johnson County, than one can reasonably conclude it is impact restaraunts in JoCo too.

A shift is not growth.

Totally off base! WYCO has been losing pop and jobs since the 1970's. The Govt needed solutions to stem the tide. They interviened and landed the NASCAR track. As a result a new boom in Western WYCO was created. You stated Govt involment doesnt create economic growth, I just gave an example of where it has. 8)

[ABC]

So there is economic growth when population is still decreasing?

That is interesting math.

And let me repeat, a shift is not economic growth.

[kcshocker11]

Ok lets try this. City A who is growing in pop builds an airport using tax rev. . As a result several airlines begin flights to city A. One is happy with central location builds a hub. Jobs createdby airlines, building built by workers, supplies shipped in by transportation, landscaping, new streets built by workers etc etc etc 8)