Stupidity I don't understand

[McShocker]

They voted to strike but delaying 48 hours to go back to the negotiating table.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008157453_boeing04.html

Boeing's offer increased the basic monthly retirement pension from $70 to $80 per year of service. Machinists wanted the company to do better, given $13 billion in net profits over the last five years, half of those profits from the commercial airplane unit.

Soon after the initial offer from Boeing last week, machinists started forwarding around e-mails from a 2006 Boeing filing with the Securities Exchange Commission showing that at that time low-level executives got monthly pensions of $400 per year of service and top executives got $4,000 for each year of service.

This is why as much as unions leave a bad taste in my mouth, you have to at least recognize that companies need to do a little better job of sharing the wealth.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Anybody watch the live feed during the announcement of the vote results? It was the most unbelievable and sad thing I have ever seen..

I'll provide some details later when I get more time..


T


...8)

[WSU and Reds Fan]

I pay 234/month which amounts to 30% of the premium for my family AND that does not include any RX coverage.

And frankly I am happy I get that....as fast as it is growing out of control it's only going to get worse.

I pay roughly $250/mo for health, dental and Rx for my family. I consider myself fortunate, in that regard.

Try $700 per month!

Maybe if you were in a union your company would pay for your insurance instead of the owners making 13 billion a year.

5% raise this year or go on strike for a minimum loss of 2 paychecks = +5% - 8% = -3%

Most union people understand that they will have to take an immediate loss in order to maintain their benefits.

Union wages are higher and their benefits are better because they are "too dumb" to just accept what their bosses think is fair and demand what they think they deserve

[SB Shock]

Most union people understand that they will have to take an immediate loss in order to maintain their benefits.

I have seen first hand of relatives in union who went out on strike. They were impacted in ways that they will never recovered financially. They didn't want to go out on strike, but they were not going to cross the picket line, not from any sense of loyalty, but didn't want to face the intimidation.

I have watched unions protect non-performers.

Union wages are higher and their benefits are better because they are "too dumb" to just accept what their bosses think is fair and demand what they think they deserve

And that is why Union jobs are disappearing (dropped from 24% in 1979 to 13% in 2008). They may be able to jam something down a company throat in the short term, but the company does have other alternatives.

All the aerospace companies in this town are either outsourcing work to non-union businesses or shifting work south of the border. They know they are going face some growing pains, but they know eventually they will have a cheap workforce that actually want to work and will produce a higher quality product.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Anybody watch the live feed during the announcement of the vote results? It was the most unbelievable and sad thing I have ever seen..

I'll provide some details later when I get more time..


T


...8)

Okay,

What I saw the other day during the live feed broadcast of the vote results encapsulated (for me) exactly what is wrong with America and why we are destined for the same destruction as superpowers before us...

As the union leaders addressed the rowdy audience they were continually interrupted with chants and strange whistles (this appears to be a union tradition). Eventually they came to the voting results and announced that the contract was rejected and a vote to strike had passed. It was utter jubilation. Never have I seen such happy people to not get paid and endure financial hardship.

But... there was more... The union leadership began to attempt to quiet the celebratory crowd. "Brothers and sisters", "brothers and sisters", over and over and over. Eventually order was restored and the union leaders began to explain that the governor and federal mediators had gotten involved and it appeared Boeing was ready to come back to the table. They announced that they used their authority to extend the current contract by 48hours to see what Boeing was willing to concede. If the new offer was rejected the workers would strike immediately.

What happened next was an opportunity for me to see the American worker at its lowest level. Thankfully these type of people are a dying breed, and if we are ever going to start righting this sinking ship we call America, they will be consumed and excreted by our great free market economy.

In my opinion the contract that Boeing offered was strong and better than these people would ever get under any other union. Never mind the fact that if they weren't in unions they would be working as cashiers at convenience stores (the ones that are actually literate) for 1/4 their current pay. But the union leadership rolled the dice and recommended the contract be rejected. I thought they were morons but their plan worked. Now they look like geniuses because Boeing is ready to come back again and further improve the contract.

How would any rational person behave under these circumstances? I personally would be happy and would go back to work awaiting the news of an even better contract and the hopes of not having to lose wages to get it. Not these folks. They started screaming and cursing and demanding that the union leaders get their their #@@# asses off the stage. It was a near riot. Their leadership pulled off the impossible and now they were literally in fear of their safety. The camera was panning around and I watched a "typical Boeing worker" just raise his hands and give the good 'ol double bird to the guys that just pulled a rabbit out of their hat and stormed out of the building. Others were literally red-faced as they screamed at the top of their lungs at their leadership. It was complete chaos.

Folks, we are not dealing with rational people. These people don't want to work, they want to strike. It didn't matter what Boeing came back with, they want to punch "the man" in the mouth regardless of the cost to them. We are dealing with irrational, insecure, men (and women) that see this as an opportunity to vent their jealous rage at those that did more with their lives and earned more because of it. Instead of focusing on bettering themselves and being excited over the prospect of an improved contract, they are more excited by the prospect of forcing the company that has supported them for most of their adult lives to lose 100 million a day.

In a perfect world this union would be busted up and those covered by it would be ordered to return to work on Monday and the current contract would be permanent. All future raises would be earned by a formal 360 degree review process.

This whole thing literally makes me sick...

I just keep having this fantasy run through my mind where I get to fire all these degenerates and they go to McDonalds where they belong.


T


...8)

[EAGLE]

LORD help me I can finally agree with something cold has said. :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

[WSU and Reds Fan]

SB Shock

I have watched unions protect non-performers.

I have also seen this and this is what is wrong with unions, in fact this is a major reason why some of the best employees do not join a union if they do not have to.

SB Shock

And that is why Union jobs are disappearing (dropped from 24% in 1979 to 13% in 2008). They may be able to jam something down a company throat in the short term, but the company does have other alternatives.

All the aerospace companies in this town are either outsourcing work to non-union businesses or shifting work south of the border. They know they are going face some growing pains, but they know eventually they will have a cheap workforce that actually want to work and will produce a higher quality product.

Union Jobs are disappearing because people do not have that sense that they need to unite to protect their jobs. There is also many new and more aggressive union fighting companies. Wal Mart for example will terminate an employee if they hear them talking about a union. Since that is illegal they will find another reason, it is not that hard since no one is perfect. Then, when a union still formed at one of their stores, they just closed the store.

C0|dB|00ded

"Brothers and sisters", "brothers and sisters", over and over and over.

Sounds just like a politician who constantly says "my friends" over and over.

In my opinion the contract that Boeing offered was strong and better than these people would ever get under any other union.

How is having less spendable money in your pocket a raise?

I hope everyone realizes that if inflation grows at 4% per year than accepting the 11% raise over 3 years would mean less spendable cash in their pocket, and a greater profit for the company since their prices will increase with inflation.

[SB Shock]

I hope everyone realizes that if inflation grows at 4% per year than accepting the 11% raise over 3 years would mean less spendable cash in their pocket, and a greater profit for the company since their prices will increase with inflation.

Inflation has from 2000 to 2007 average was 2.8%. Now 2008 has been 4.4% - question is what it will do over the next 3 years? Probably alot of it will do with what happens to the price of oil.

[Ixiah]

My dad worked out at Boeing from the late 40's into the 80's. We saw our fair share of strikes and, if I recall correctly, he didn't vote for a single one.

As many know there are plenty of 'hotheads' who push for a strike when the offer is reasonable. It happens. Rarely do these things drag on for months as even the hotheads start to see the light as the old mortgage starts getting behind.

Not sure what all the hatred of unions is all about. Envy over them receiving good wages?

Don't foget that those workers spending is a HUGE chunk of our local economy!

[SubGod22]

Why is it that Hawker and Boeing seem to have a strike every few years? And then Cessna hasn't had one in who knows how long? Is it that Hawker and Boeing just offer absolute crap? Or do they just hire those that couldn't hack it at Cessna?

I'd be fine with them if they'd actually strike because of a good reason. I didn't see that with Hawker and haven't with Boeing. The people I know who work for both companies can't find a good reason either.

[RoyalShock]

The news just said Boeing's machinist wages average, yes AVERAGE, more than any other aerospace company in the area pay their TOP machinists.

Cessna's top wage was just under $26/hr. Boeing averages $27/hr.

Don't anyone try to tell me that over-inflated wages aren't a HUGE reason jobs are crossing the border.

[Ixiah]

The news just said Boeing's machinist wages average, yes AVERAGE, more than any other aerospace company in the area pay their TOP machinists.

Cessna's top wage was just under $26/hr. Boeing averages $27/hr.

Don't anyone try to tell me that over-inflated wages aren't a HUGE reason jobs are crossing the border.

Boeing is kind of like pro ball - great while you are there but good luck being there for long. They hire and layoff frequently.

[rrshock]

I still cant' believe that they are striking because they want more job security. There are only a few jobs that I can think of that can't be shipped to another country. And most of those are public servants in one form or another. So they're really striking just for the heck of it, because this isn't going to accomplish anything.

[SB Shock]

I still cant' believe that they are striking because they want more job security. There are only a few jobs that I can think of that can't be shipped to another country. And most of those are public servants in one form or another. So they're really striking just for the heck of it, because this isn't going to accomplish anything.

You forgot to add their striking because they are being they don't want to pay more for non-generic drugs (don't people understand that generic/non-generic are the same?).

Also they are striking because their health insurance cost for a traditional healthcare plan are increasing (still increasing less than what the company is paying in increases), while the company offers a HMO plan that cost $0 for a family.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

I just talked to my mom.

She works at Spirit and she will be forced to go to a 3 day work week. She will work Wed,Thur& Friday but Spirit is forcing them to use any/all vacation time accrued.

So they are still getting paid but at the same time they are being fed a stiff one.