Should Wichita Build a Casino?

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

Outside of professional sports, the KC area really offers little more than Wichita,

There is a small contingent of people in KC who share the same intrests as I So I have to navigate that way to keep a sane head *music "nightlife" etc*

But all in all i agree

[rjl]

But considering the history of Wichita and it's lack of thinking ahead I have to doubt that it'll be done.

And that sentence right there tells you why.

Failure is the prediction of the vocal citizens for 90% of the projects in this town, and therefore the "lack of thinking ahead" becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

To put it another way, the city leaders themselves have relatively little to do with the success or failure of the majority of these projects.

[BOBB]

I honestly don't give a crap if people lose their house and or family to gambling. That's your problem for not being able to control yourself. If you can't control your gambling then your probably already teetering on the brink with alcohol and all of life's other bad vice's.

That's a shortsighted take. I'm a yes on the casino, but crumbling families are YOUR problem. When the children of crumbling families turn in to criminals and victimize you or your family it becomes your problem. When there are foreclosures in the city, that drives down all of our value.

Whenever I post and drink I come across as overly opinionated, basically I turn into Cold. I guess I said it too harshly, I care, just not very much. You say that it's possible that kids of crumbling families can turn into criminals. (reminds me of Chris Rock "Take care a yo kids before they rob me in ten years") I just don't think that it happens enough to become a credible argument against a casino. I think that they were likely headed down that road to begin with whether it be via a gambling problem or one of life's other pitfalls.

I tend to go to extremes to make a point. I don't think a casino is going to turn many families into the "Fireflys" from the Devil's Rejects...if it turned a few girls into "Baby Fireflys" I'd be in...I wish there were three questions with Yes/No for Wichita added. I'd be all for it in Park City...I know of some cheap land they can get.

[C0|dB|00ded]

I've been back and forth on this issue several times. I have consulted with economics professors and researched the issue personally. At this point I am slightly leaning towards voting yes.

I look at it like this: If the casino is built in Wichita it will stop a moderately-heavy flow of gambling dollars (lodging, dining, misc.) out of the city to KC, OKC, etc. It will also be a 250-400mm dollar investment into the beautification of downtown Wichita (if it goes DT). It will provide a massive entertainment option for the middle to upper-middle class Wichitan through typical casino fare as well as live entertainment and top-notch dining. It could also hopefully improve our skyline. Also, IMO a HUGE factor that few seem to talk about is the ability to attract more conventions to Wichita. Did you know that the women's amateur bowling league convention made a 40 million dollar impact on our economy? Just one or two more of those podunk conventions and the casino is a clear Win-Win. Convention leadership want to go to a city where their members will have a good time. A downtown casino would greatly increase the fun-factor of Wichita from an outsiders perspective. Lastly, Wichita's capacity for conventions would be strongly bolstered by the addition of a 400+ hotel. Conventions are always criticizing our hotel capacity and things have been getting better with the Marriott and Hotel OldTown the last few years. Another BIG hotel like a casino would bring would be a VERY nice thing for Wichita...

Again, my vision is based on a downtown casino in Wichita. If it is ultimately built in Trailer Park City that will seriously suck! Of course why would Ruffin want a casino next to his dog track? Chances are it's coming downtown to the Delano District and Donald Trump will be on board. That would be a great day in my opinion for entertainment in Wichita.

Remember folks, this is just like the arena vote. Vote yes for an arena in downtown Wichita, or vote no for a refurb of the cow palace in T-Park City.

Vote Yes to have another 1% of the revenue in Wichita plus the added hotel rooms, entertainment options, jobs, tax revenue, beautification of downtown, or vote not to have it moved 5 minutes south of Derby.

Don't think for a moment that if we vote this casino down they won't put it right on the Sumner County line. Like any developer would put it in Wellington... ROFL. They are going to put it closest to their largest population and that would be Wichita at 600K. The Sumner county line is 119 Street South, parallel to Mulvane and just 4 miles away from Derby. I don't understand some of our city's business leaders when they say "at least it won't be in our back yard".... ? ? ? ? It most definitely will be in our back yard if we vote no and it will come with most of the same economic costs. It will be in Derby's (population 30k) front yard. Why not bring hundreds of millions of dollars into downtown Wichita so we can enjoy it's beauty?

P.S.

I don't gamble and have never bought a lottery ticket.


T


...8)

[rrshock]

Good point Cold. If they vote no in Wichita, they're gonna get in Sumner County because they already voted to have one and passed it. And Wichita and sedgwick county will only be losing money, they won't get to reap what benefits there are.

[RoyalShock]

What if the Iowa scenario occurs here and growth comes to a halt? Maybe putting the casino in Sumner Co. will insulate Wichita from that effect. I don't know one way or the other, but is a point worthy of consideration. I'd say that economic growth is better over the long haul than casino revenue without the growth.

[C0|dB|00ded]

What was the growth rate in those Iowa communities before the casinos came to town? Perhaps they were already stagnant towns and brought in casinos in hopes to "spark" their situation? Why don't other cities like Omaha, OKC, St. Louis, K.C., etc. etc. etc. suffer slow growth?

Wichita right now has many things going for it and I hardly imagine one casino is going to change that. I love the "vote no" website comparing the loss of revenue to losing the military base. What a twisted example.. That example would hold true if the casino didn't bring any positives to the community of which it most certainly will.

1) The recapture of gaming revenue, lodging, dining, and other travelling expenses that are currently rolling out of town in a higher rate than most would expect.

2) Increased convention activity (guaranteed) in Wichita due to entertainment options and 400 more top-flight hotel rooms.

3) 2% of gross gaming revenue.

4) Increased tax revenue

5) 1,800 jobs

6) 1,000+ construction jobs and/or business for local construction companies.

7) Downtown beautification -decreased blight.

8] Increased tourism from out-of-county residents (IE. free money)

..these are just off the top of my head


T


...8)

[C0|dB|00ded]

There really is no way to vote 'NO' to casinos...




T


...8)

[kcshocker11]

What makes people think Trump will be involved?

[rrshock]

What makes people think Trump will be involved?

Phil Ruffin has a plan and it involve the Donald.

[SubGod22]

Or at least, the Donalds name.

[SpanglerFan316]

Good point Cold. If they vote no in Wichita, they're gonna get in Sumner County because they already voted to have one and passed it. And Wichita and sedgwick county will only be losing money, they won't get to reap what benefits there are.

I agree strongly. I am voting in favor of casinos and the dog track because we will get the problems independent of the upcoming vote.

[rjl]

What makes people think Trump will be involved?

Kansas law forbids a dog track owner from also owning the majority share of a casino, therefore precluding local real-estate tycoon Phil Ruffin from owning and operating one on his own.

Enter his friend, Donald Trump, who will be the majority owner (on paper at least, as SubGod alluded to).

http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/ruffin_trump_ca.html

[jazztrane]

I just don't see the increased convention activity if a casino is built. The yes group is trying to say we lost the national bowling tourney because we didn't have a casino-I don't see the correlation, and I don't see a casino by itself bringing in national conventions. Long term, revenue enhancing business is better, not a casino that will take money from other area businesses and ventures.

I also don't see how the entertainment aspect will be of benefit, if its going to compete with other existing venues such as our already-seems-to-be-going-down-the-tubes-downtown-arena?

The increase in jobs from the casino will be offset by loss of jobs in other businesses losses, so I don't see that as a big economic benefit. BUT, if you're voting yes for new jobs let me ask you, that 2nd "yes" vote will be for slot machines at the dog track, and possibly other venues. What jobs exactly are being added once the machines and delivered and zombies sit there feeding money into them? A couple minimum wage cleaning people and a supervisor maybe? How do slot machines create jobs and positively impact our economy? They do nothing but line Phil Ruffin's pockets!

And the last thing I would say is its by far a guarantee that Sumner Co. will get one, and for us (Sedg Co) to say "we might as well, Sumner already voted yes" as the commercial states, is ridiculous. Is it prudent to vote yes just because someone else did? No one is going to build a $200M casino in Sumner Co. There's just not the revenue base to make it worthwhile. The casino operators KNOW that the majority of their revenue comes from a 50 mile radius, that's why they want downtown Wichita, that's their biggest source to pull from. If you move out of Wichita, or Sumner Co., the potential drops dramatically, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if they looked elsewhere if it doesn't pass in Sedgwick.

Good arguments on both sides here, I'm glad to see the discussion. I just feel strongly that this is not a good deal, especially the bill that our rep's passed, this thing is full of holes and potential for corruption. I think the negatives far outweigh the positives on this one.

[newshock1234]

I am one of the people that said it doesnt matter. But i get the feeling that it will yes.