Drilling for oil and gas

[Maggie]

Anyone that is interested can read Barack Obama's energy plan right here: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/energy/.

The phrase "windfall profits tax" doesn't appear on the site anywhere. No where does it talk about taking away tax breaks or taxing companies more. However, the plan does include the generous use of tax credits and tax incentives for companies that invest in renewables and energy efficiency.

And Obama does want America to be free from foreign oil. He has a plan to make America independent of foreign oil. Its just that his plan involves creating more efficiency and use of renewables as opposed to just drilling for more oil.

Have you been listening to Obama lately?

I scanned his economic plan and noticed that he proposes a cap and trade system to reduce carbon emissions. That concept worked really well in Europe. (I am being sarcastic).

[WuDrWu]

WuDrWu:

A "windfall" tax will have an affect on the problem – it will make it worse.

Yeppers.....my bad.


Anyway, if that's such a good idea, why not take all the profits from the oil companies? Hell, why not just have the govenment take all the reserves, everywhere and own the oil themselves? That's the ticket!

[Maggie]

WuDrWu:

A "windfall" tax will have an affect on the problem – it will make it worse.

Yeppers.....my bad.


Anyway, if that's such a good idea, why not take all the profits from the oil companies? Hell, why not just have the govenment take all the reserves, everywhere and own the oil themselves? That's the ticket!

I know you are not being serious but, sadly, we have been heading in that direction for quite some time.

Every year, whether the Republican or the Democratic Party is in office, more and more power drains away from the individual; and we have less and less say about the shape of events which shape our future. From this alienation of personal power comes the sense of resignation with which we accept the political dispensations of a powerful government whose hold upon us continues to increase.

Big Daddy Government Supreme.

[WuShockFan]

Doc,

I've read this board enough to know you're quite stubborn, so I know there's no convincing you or changing your mind. You're already set in your beliefs. I rarely hear Obama mention the windfall profits tax. Usually what he talks about when he talks about his energy plan is making cars more fuel-efficient and using more renewables like biofuels, to reduce oil demand. And the answer to your question, how to go about doing that, is first to elect him President, which I know you won't be helping with! So of course you're going to oppose his ideas.

And to Maggie, John McCain also has a cap and trade system in his plan, see here: http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/...ca5caba1de.htm.

McCain, however, does not have an energy plan on his website, so I don't know what his plans are. At least he's not an oil patch guy like Bush and Cheney. Wonder why gas prices went so high right when we got some oil guys in office? hmm.. While McCain does not have an energy plan on his website, he does have quite an extensive plan on climate change. hahaha...read up.

[Maggie]

And to Maggie, John McCain also has a cap and trade system in his plan, see here: http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/...ca5caba1de.htm.

McCain, however, does not have an energy plan on his website, so I don't know what his plans are. At least he's not an oil patch guy like Bush and Cheney. Wonder why gas prices went so high right when we got some oil guys in office? hmm.. While McCain does not have an energy plan on his website, he does have quite an extensive plan on climate change. hahaha...read up.

I know that McCain has proposed cap and trade system – that does not make it a good idea. I have a suggestion: Why don't you address the merits of such a system, if you agree with it, rather than simply pointing out that both candidates have a version on their website.

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt with regard to your assertion that the rise in oil prices is directly related to President Bush and Vice President Cheney's election. By your logic, President Carter must have had some clandestine interest in the oil industry. And I only thought he was a peanut farmer.

[rjl]

In drug culture, I believe this is called "just one fix".

[WuDrWu]

Doc,

I've read this board enough to know you're quite stubborn, so I know there's no convincing you or changing your mind. You're already set in your beliefs. I rarely hear Obama mention the windfall profits tax. Usually what he talks about when he talks about his energy plan is making cars more fuel-efficient and using more renewables like biofuels, to reduce oil demand. And the answer to your question, how to go about doing that, is first to elect him President, which I know you won't be helping with! So of course you're going to oppose his ideas.

And to Maggie, John McCain also has a cap and trade system in his plan, see here: http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/...ca5caba1de.htm.

McCain, however, does not have an energy plan on his website, so I don't know what his plans are. At least he's not an oil patch guy like Bush and Cheney. Wonder why gas prices went so high right when we got some oil guys in office? hmm.. While McCain does not have an energy plan on his website, he does have quite an extensive plan on climate change. hahaha...read up.

If "stubborn" means "right" then I guess I'm stubborn.


Seriously, this is one of the reasons I enjoy these boards so much (and spend waaaaaaaay too much time here). Let's discuss these topics. Let's enlighten each other. Hell, I don't know everything. I know somethings.....I know other things with a ton of depth and clarity...other things I am a dolt. We need to not only look at things from one point of view, which sadly, is exactly the kind of political structure we have.

We need not to have one set of directives jammed down our throats. You've read enough to know that I am conservative in nature, true. I believe government should do about 1 thing, protect and defend our country. I am not slanted enough to think that's all they are going to do but frankly you and I are better at doing about 1 million things than the govenment is capable of and until we foster an environment of encouraging success instead of saving from failure then we will continue down the road we have been for years. It's not only Dems fault, all politicians are to blame.

If you want to talk about the Presidency my comments would be this. The most important thing in a President is defense of our country. I think McCain would be better at this than Obama. Based on experience. I don't think either one of them has a plan worth 2 plug nickels in regards to anything else. I think if either of the 2 can possibly be a leader that can inspire people to great things, I think that person is Obama. Whether he has the ideas to complete that, I don't think so....but he has the opportunity. I also think there is a 75+% chance that he will be our next President. Without question I wish there were other options. If either candidate would at least show a willingness to accept some middle ground by naming a neutral VP, they would probably win in a landslide, certainly in Obama's case. I highly doubt either of them will, but I will admit that I carry a jaded view of politicians......maybe I'll be wrong this time.




Probably not though.

[WuDrWu]

I know you are not being serious but, sadly, we have been heading in that direction for quite some time.

Every year, whether the Republican or the Democratic Party is in office, more and more power drains away from the individual; and we have less and less say about the shape of events which shape our future. From this alienation of personal power comes the sense of resignation with which we accept the political dispensations of a powerful government whose hold upon us continues to increase.

Big Daddy Government Supreme.

I'll always remember a report from a Stanford think tank a couple of years ago. They studied the work horizon and came to the conclusion that the 2 "industries" that would see the biggest growth and the best opportunities for people to obtain work in the next 5-20 years were 1)health care and 2)government.


I vomited in the shower when I heard this........it still makes me shudder.......the worst part? They are in all likelyhood spot on.

[Maggie]

I know you are not being serious but, sadly, we have been heading in that direction for quite some time.

Every year, whether the Republican or the Democratic Party is in office, more and more power drains away from the individual; and we have less and less say about the shape of events which shape our future. From this alienation of personal power comes the sense of resignation with which we accept the political dispensations of a powerful government whose hold upon us continues to increase.

Big Daddy Government Supreme.

I'll always remember a report from a Stanford think tank a couple of years ago. They studied the work horizon and came to the conclusion that the 2 "industries" that would see the biggest growth and the best opportunities for people to obtain work in the next 5-20 years were 1)health care and 2)government.


I vomited in the shower when I heard this........it still makes me shudder.......the worst part? They are in all likelyhood spot on.

It took a Stanford think tank to figure that out? :shock:

[rjl]

Here's one major fault I see in all of this:

I don't believe the United States will ever operate on an independent market from the rest of the world when it comes to oil prices.

Drilling offshore, in ANWR, in the Dakotas, or wherever we find it will increase the supply of oil, for sure, but in a global climate where demand is skyrocketing it will only be a temporary fix.

Could the United States produce enough oil to satiate our needs? Sure. We could probably produce more than enough, theoretically driving the price per barrel down in the US.

But what would stop an oil company from selling barrels on the global market for $150 each instead of the domestic market for $75?

If we're going to fend for ourselves, it's going to have to be through technology and a wholesale change in what propels our transportation.

[WuDrWu]

I think they spent 2 years and about 1.5 million in federal aid to figure that out.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

what happened to all that oil we bought from Russia directly after 9/11 which helped gas prices to be under/at $1

[SubGod22]

Here's one major fault I see in all of this:

I don't believe the United States will ever operate on an independent market from the rest of the world when it comes to oil prices.

Drilling offshore, in ANWR, in the Dakotas, or wherever we find it will increase the supply of oil, for sure, but in a global climate where demand is skyrocketing it will only be a temporary fix.

Could the United States produce enough oil to satiate our needs? Sure. We could probably produce more than enough, theoretically driving the price per barrel down in the US.

But what would stop an oil company from selling barrels on the global market for $150 each instead of the domestic market for $75?

If we're going to fend for ourselves, it's going to have to be through technology and a wholesale change in what propels our transportation.

I pretty much agree. But before we can get to the point of technologies and other forms of energy we need to do everything we can to help now and in the shorter term. Drilling would help while other forms of energy and better technologies are produced and efficient enough to be used on a wider scale. But for now, oil and gas is what we have and we should be using what we can. Even if we never get totally independent of foreign oil, we can reduce the impact it has on us.

[ShockBand]

You want to push down consumption, without changing cars or reducing the number of miles you drive? Its really simple...

SLOW DOWN.

A couple weeks ago, Mrs. SB, Baby SB, and I went to KC. I locked the cruise in at 65 instead of the usual 75. I used 4-5 fewer gallons of gas, probably a 15-20% reduction. Yes this is for strictly highway miles, but it sure worked. BTW, I drive a 2002 Saturn SL1, so my mileage was pretty good anyway.

However, most drivers on the highway have the attitude of "you can have my gas pedal when you can pry it off the bottom of my cold lead foot".

[Maggie]

We will never be completely independent. Not in today's world. What do you people think of policies along these lines:

Secure short-term energy supplies by removing regulatory obstacles that prevent us from utilizing the considerable energy resources currently locked up in Alaska, the lower 48 states, both coasts and the Gulf of Mexico. Encourage technology development and deployment for the medium term by removing regulatory barriers to energy innovation, redeploy resources to fund research via prizes at no net cost, and focus on making alternative energy cheaper, not traditional-source energy more expensive.

Promote means of adapting to a warmer world by, for instance, tackling directly existing problems that warming might exacerbate, rather than simply attempting to fine-tune the atmosphere. Finally, enact trade measures that have helped make developing nations wealthier, thus making them more resilient to any changes in climate.

Sort of a free-market energy and global warming set of policies that would benefit the economy and American consumers, not penalize them.