Redskins Debate

[Kung Wu]

Now I'm not a huge Bob Lutz fan, but there was one thing that stood out to me as very insightful in his article about North High. When so many people defend keeping the name because of tradition, historical reasons, pride, etc., they always talk about how "native Americans" are not offended, how "native Americans" are proud to be represented as an official mascot. But what absolutely no one does is actually call them "Redskins."

That's where the logic leaves the train tracks for me. Call them "warriors", "braves", "Indians", or whatever, but it should be something you are comfortable calling one of them to their face.

The comments section below Bob's article even proved his own point (which is hilarious). Every person that claims he is being a PC pansie calls them "native Americans", not "Redskins."

I'm not opining on the subject, but I'll ask if these are also acceptable:

A team called Blackskins with an obvious black culture theme?

A team called Yellowskins with an obvious Asian culture theme?

If everybody is good with those, then I guess "Redskins" is okay. If there are issues with those, then that sort of sheds additional light on the continued use of "Redskins".

[ShockerFever]

I don't have an opinion either, but I wouldn't mind a team called the Whiteskins or the Fighting Whites. Now I know that's an apples and oranges comparison, but I'm just saying. Wouldn't offend me.

[Kung Wu]

I don't have an opinion either, but I wouldn't mind a team called the Whiteskins or the Fighting Whites. Now I know that's an apples and oranges comparison, but I'm just saying. Wouldn't offend me.

Yeah me neither, but I haven't lived in the shoes of a minority, so I don't know that my opinion on that matter counts for much. Maybe? Maybe not. Dunno.

[kcshocker11]

How bout the saltine honkeys

[WuDrWu]

Am curious to see what people think. Offensive, not offensive? To change, not to change?

I'm indifferent to the issue.

The first time I read this thread, I honestly thought you were asking about the team itself and it's early season struggles. I saw it was off topic and the actual reason for the thread never crossed my mind.

It could be time for me to pin the note to my own windbreaker and go watch the doggies chase the funny bunny.

[WuDrWu]

Almost every name offends somebody, somewhere. The name Redskins is used in a proud, historic and positive manner. It's certainly not used in an intended derogatory manner.

That being said, while I realize that a small vocal group finds offense in the name, I'm not convinced they aren't making noise for any reason other than to see how they can benefit from it. I would be curious what a large number of, I don't know what to call them, because you can go to hell if you don't think I'M a native American, so I am going to use the term Indians, have to say on the subject.

But finally, the market should decide. There is free speech in this country. If the market decides that it's time to change, then change. It should be the decision of the marketplace, and government should absolutely and 100% stay the hell out of it.

[Dan]

I heard the Birmingham Blackskins have quite the hockey team.

[wsushox1]

Almost every name offends somebody, somewhere. The name Redskins is used in a proud, historic and positive manner. It's certainly not used in an intended derogatory manner.

That being said, while I realize that a small vocal group finds offense in the name, I'm not convinced they aren't making noise for any reason other than to see how they can benefit from it. I would be curious what a large number of, I don't know what to call them, because you can go to hell if you don't think I'M a native American, so I am going to use the term Indians, have to say on the subject.

But finally, the market should decide. There is free speech in this country. If the market decides that it's time to change, then change. It should be the decision of the marketplace, and government should absolutely and 100% stay the hell out of it.

Agree whole-heartedly with your last point. This thread was inspired by both Bob Lutz's article and Bob Costas's "commentary" at the halftime of Sunday Night Football. As you know, I am fairly young, and am curious as to people's opinion on this matter. It might sound strange to say that I hold some of your opinion's in fairly high regard but it is true.

[BenWSU]

I think the term is "Redskins" is offensive but I'm not native American so I can't stand on a soapbox calling people out for using it. I'd like to hear more from native American's on the issue than a newspaper writer & a tv person who aren't native American yet they feel the need to be a part of the national conversation.

[MoValley John]

I guess I don't care. Now if I owned the team, I'd be all for a name change. The marketing opportunities and the money to be made off of a whole new line of gear would be huge.

That said, I'm not positive but I think the NFL controls the rights to all, or a huge chunk of official NFL merchandize, so that could be leading the charge for a change. Follow the money.

[pinstripers]

My ancestors came to the Americas 150 years ago. I am offended by the term, native American.

[CBB_Fan]

As long as a team isn't represented by a caricature, I think it is fine. For example, no one has problems with the Chiefs because they have a simple arrowhead logo and a respectful type of name. But if we were to put a new team in LA called the LA Chinks, with a logo that is a caricature of an Asian person, then that would not be okay. Redskins are close to that point in their name, but their logo isn't too much of a caricature. The Cleveland Indians on the other hand have a caricature for a logo and probably could be reasonably changed (the logo, not the team name). In North Dakota's case, the majority of Sioux either didn't care or liked the team's mascot, but the school decided to change their logo to appease a minority of the Sioux, probably to avoid the potential for legal trouble.

In summation, you need the following to really have a case against a team:

• An oppressed minority group
• A derogatory team name
• A caricature for a logo

As long as the name and logo aren't derogatory or demeaning, I think Native American mascots are fine.

[pinstripers]

What sport do you think the LA Chinks would play?

[MoValley John]

What sport do you think the LA Chinks would play?

Wow. Just wow. I'm not offended by the sudden turn in the topic, just surprised. And disappointed. Disappointed in the fact that I'm stumped and can't figure out a funny reply. This should be easy, the proverbial softball, but I got nothing...

[MoValley John]

Table tennis.