Royals Off Season News

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

if the Royals extend Shields then most if not all of this comes down to moot anyways.
Shields is a guy the Royals need and Davis could be a nice get but that is an "if" We know who Shields is and what he will bring. I dont agree with giving up both Odorizzi and Myers for him but I am okay with the trading of prospects to strengthen the team. There is still a good group of core guys in the low minors who can be plugged in once Moose/Hosmer etc decide to leave (sure they could stay but lets be real)

Lets say Moose improves his BA and Hosmer improves in his third year. Also take in that Lorenzo Cain stays healthy all year. The Royals DO have everything in place to win. Its more than just pitching but when you think about it that rotation is sexy as all hell. Shield-Duffy-Paulino. Paulino has ace stuff I dont care what anyone else thinks. And Duffy. Duffy is special, VERY special. But the lineup we have needs to start producing. Perez is exceeding expectations. Gordon is finally the player we knew he could be. Moose and Hosmer are coming into year 3 and both have shown flashes of what they can do and they have both failed. Its their time to get it done.

Im mad.. But I'm also pretty excited.

[SubGod22]

I'd feel better if we had someone in RF that could cover more ground than my grandparents and didn't strike out so much. Or at least if he's going to strike out a lot, has the ability to hit for a lot of power. Our biggest weakness this season is RF.

And I'm understand trading prospects but just don't get trading both of them for this. I'd feel better if we had a few more guys in the high minors that could step in if needed, but we don't. I hope it works out, but I have a feeling in 5 or 6 years we're going to look back on this as the move that cost Dayton his job. Heck, it may not take that long.

[ShockTalk]

Major problem is the black hole in RF now with no hope. I've always seen Jake projected as a #2. Myers is as close to a sure thing as you can get right now. Shields is at best a #2, but he'll be our #1 by default. Davis is a #4 or #5 at best and was in the pen for a reason in Tampa.

If the Royals don't win this year or next, Dayton will lose his job. He's preached staying the course and letting phase one complete, I, and many others, feel he's jumped the gun and given up on phase one to win now. Mostly because I think he feels his job is in danger.

KC still needs to figure something out in RF. Need to figure out if Cain can stay healthy in CF. If there are any injuries in the OF or with the SP we're screwed as there's really nobody in AAA that can step in outside of MAYBE Ventura. But he's still got a little more to prove but I hope he can be what the Royals think. He's seen as anything from a future #1 to a bullpen guy.

AA didn't have a lot going for it last year and our best AAA guys are gone. They have to win now or we wait for the A guys to develop. That bothers me.

Sub, you know way more than I regarding the Royals, but are you telling me that the arguably #2 starting pitcher for the #1 staff in the American League is no better than, at best, a #2 on the #10 staff? That #1 staff a Tampa just might have been the reason Davis got bumped to the pen. His worst ERA as a starter would have been #3 on the Royals last year and that includes what Santana did with the Angels.

The Royals are not going to have top players at every position. However, it's time that highly touted farm system players of Moose and Hosmer do what their supposed do. Add to that, if Butler, Gordon, Perez, and Escobar do about what they did last year, that will be a very good lineup. Include your boy Johnny G and maybe just one of the newbies come through, that's pretty solid.

[SubGod22]

Shields is by far the #1 on the Royals. I just don't think he's a #1 pitcher. And I understand we can't have all-stars at every position, but we have a guy in RF who put up some of the worst numbers in history for an everyday player. I also forgot that 2B is a weakness for KC. They've given up on Gio and signed Getz and I fear they'll play him everyday. Which means if Hos doesn't hit the entire right side of our defense is a major liability in the lineup.

C - I feel great about Salvy. The kid is a superstar behind the plate and has been a pleasant surprise at it.
1B - Hosmer has to hit. Honestly, I was kind of hoping that they could package him in a deal before they did Myers to get pitching. Butler is weaker in the field but not horrid, much better at the plate.
2B - ??? I'd rather have Falu and/or Abreu take over here at this point. Both are better options than Getz
3B - I like Moose. He plays gold glove level D and hit pretty well. I think he struggled late as he was running out of gas but I think he moved forward again.
SS - One of the best defensive guys at his position and if he can continue to hit like he did last year or close to it, we're good to go.
LF - We all know what we have in A1 and we're all happy about it.
CF - Cain has to stay healthy. Dyson has to be able to hit more consistently. We need both or we're screwed on offense here.
RF - I love Frenchy as a person, but he doesn't belong here. It should have been Myers, as it is, we have nobody else that can play there every day except Cain, and if he does that, we're stuck with Dyson every day in CF. Not sure that's a winning combo.

SP - It's better, but I'm not sure if it's enough to make up for the offensive weakness we appear to have. Shields will be the number one guy but I don't think he's a #1 on most teams. He'll eat innings and give us a chance. I hope Santana can be what they think. I know he has the tools but consistency has been a bit of an issue. I like Guthrie as a solid innings eater as well. He's good in the middle of a rotation. Sadly, I could see him being the number one or two pitcher in productivity by the end of the year. I have little faith in Davis to be what they're hoping. He's not much different than any other pitcher we have or had lately. The fifth spot is up for grabs according to DM. Chen will get a chance but I think he'll be in the pen and be used for spot starts. They're going to give Hoch a chance but he just needs to go away. Mendoza was somehow successful last year but I don't know how. Smith is young but I like his makeup. I hope he wins the spot as it'd be nice to have an actual young pitcher on the staff that I at least have faith in to be solid.

The bullpen should be fine again. Holland is a stud at the back end. Don't need to go into great detail on these guys.

Minors - I, and every other Royals fan on the planet, were looking forward to seeing Myers and Odorizzi take their place in KC this year. Now that they're gone, there's really only one name to watch that could be called up this year if he makes great strides and that's fireballer Yordano Ventura. There may be a couple of guys that could fit into the pen as well but that's not a big deal. The little help we had in the upper minors was given away in the hopes that we can ride Shields to the playoffs. Or, if you listen to DM, it was a trade that made them better but he doesn't believe that they have to be a playoff team in the next two years....

I don't know why he jumped the timeframe as he's been talking about '14, '15 forever as being the target date. He just gave up '15 for '13. Shields isn't going to resign in KC and Davis isn't going to be a major impact.

[shockmonster]

I don't remember which national magazine he was from on 610 at lunchtime today but he was the major league baseball analyst for the mag. He was the one who said that Odirizzi had a ceiling as a #3 pitcher who he pointed out that many highly rated minor pitchers never pan out to their ceiling. Same was for Myers so he thought that the trade was good because they pulled two already proven successful pitchers from TB.

[RoyalShock]

Moostakas had equal-or-better AA/AAA numbers before joining KC than Myers. Besides a short spurt to start last season, Moose is still adjusting. And he didn't have the strikeout problems that Myers had. Furthermore, ML scouts are saying Myers has yet to learn how to hit a good curveball. That will get exposed big time in the majors. I think it would be late 2014 before Myers is able to make the adjustments to be a .280+ hitter with 20+ HRs, meaning his year to really be a major upgrade in RF is 2015, which also coincides with the salaries of Butler, Gordon, Hoz and Moose going up to the tune of $12 million or more.

IIRC, Frenchy had some sort of leg injury most, if not all of last season. I think he'll show better defense and at least regress back to the mean on offense (meaning an improvement back to his career averages).

I also have a feeling KC isn't done. I wonder if they could trade Mendoza for a more productive right fielder?

[wufan]

Myers 2012 (AA/AAA): 134 games, .314/37/109
Moustakas 2010 (AA, AAA): 118 games, .322/36/124
Hosmer 2010 (A/AA): 137 games, .338/20/86
Gordon 2010 (AA/AAA): 75 games, .310/14/46

So Myers probably isn't Willy Mays and probably is Moose/Hosmer/Gordon, just two years behind.

Odorizzi 2012 (AA/AAA): 15-5/3.03/135 and 50 in 145.1 IP
Davis 2009 (AAA): 10-8/3.40/140 and 60 in 158.2 IP

So Odorizzi probably isn't Clemons and probably is Wade Davis, just three years behind.

Shields most certainly is an Ace. Among A.L. starters last year he was 12th in ERA, 10th in wins, 3rd in innings and 3rd in Ks. In 2011 he was 3rd in ERA, 4th in wins, 2nd in IP and 2nd in Ks.

As I see it, Myers will someday be Hos/Moose/A1/Country Breakfast, but not yet. Odorizzi will someday be Wade Davis, but not yet. Shields is a Wacko-Zacko type starter that isn't crazy. I like the trade. We are still weak in RF and at 2nd.

[SubGod22]

Myers would be an upgrade this year over Frenchy. He covers more ground, has a great arm and I'm confident could hit at least .240 with some power. The arm is the only thing that may have been a downgrade and it wouldn't have been all that much.

Frenchy is a strikeout machine with little usable pop and runs like he has a grand piano on his back.

Myers should have been called up last year. It would have upgraded RF. He should be starting this year and developing and learning. '14 was always the target date and with a year and a half of experience, I think he would have been just fine. Dayton's man crush on Frenchy has most likely cost this organization 10 years of work before it's all said and done.

[RoyalShock]

If Myers were to be playing in RF for the Royals this season, then here is how our rotation would likely look:

1: Guthrie
2: Marcum
3: Santana
4/5: Chendozevar

If Frenchy's leg or hip, whatever it was (look at his SBs from 2011 to 2012 - it's obvious something wasn't right), is good to go and he returns to his career averages (.266/.310/.426 15+ HR, 30+ 2B, 70+ RBI) then there will be little difference between the two this season. And that's if you take an optimistic view of what Myers will do as a rookie. And if you look at Frenchy's even year/odd year splits, he's poised to hit .275/.315/.450 with 20 HRs, 35 2B and 80 RBI. Baseball is a funny game.

As I've read multitudes of opinions on this trade it's clear to me that those who haven't accepted it yet are also the ones who won't accept that Glass just isn't going to approve going out and signing Anibal Sanchez to a 6-year deal at $17mil per. I know it makes sense to them because it's not their money. But it ain't happening.

I don't like losing Myers, but Moore exceeded the expectations I set for him this off-season to improve the rotation. I'm going to do my best to enjoy 2013. It's the first time since the early 90s the Royals have a legitimate chance to be a playoff team.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

If Myers were to be playing in RF for the Royals this season, then here is how our rotation would likely look:

1: Guthrie
2: Marcum
3: Santana
4/5: Chendozevar

If Frenchy's leg or hip, whatever it was (look at his SBs from 2011 to 2012 - it's obvious something wasn't right), is good to go and he returns to his career averages (.266/.310/.426 15+ HR, 30+ 2B, 70+ RBI) then there will be little difference between the two this season. And that's if you take an optimistic view of what Myers will do as a rookie. And if you look at Frenchy's even year/odd year splits, he's poised to hit .275/.315/.450 with 20 HRs, 35 2B and 80 RBI. Baseball is a funny game.

As I've read multitudes of opinions on this trade it's clear to me that those who haven't accepted it yet are also the ones who won't accept that Glass just isn't going to approve going out and signing Anibal Sanchez to a 6-year deal at $17mil per. I know it makes sense to them because it's not their money. But it ain't happening.

I don't like losing Myers, but Moore exceeded the expectations I set for him this off-season to improve the rotation. I'm going to do my best to enjoy 2013. It's the first time since the early 90s the Royals have a legitimate chance to be a playoff team.

I think you're spot on for the most part. Without the trade the rotation looks horrible and the Royals are poised to be in the same position as last year. 3rd place in the central and thats only because Cleveland and Minnesota suck.
With the trade however the pitching staff is bolstered in BOTH the starting rotation and the bullpen. It does sound like Davis is going to get the opportunity to start. Yeah he was pushed to the bullpen in TB but look at their starting rotation. They are an organization that knows what its doin when it comes to pitchers.

Regarding Anibal.... With the amount of money that is being paid to Shields/Davis/Hoch, The Royals could have went out and got Sanchez. Obviously a team like the Royals should not sink that much money into 1 player but they would have had a guy who is comparable to Shields and still kept Myers/Odorizzi. There is still the chance that KC could capitalize on their upside.

You can find pros/cons about the trade everywhere you look. I was pretty mad at the fact of losing both the guys but at the same time I'm not stupid. The trade does make the Royals better right now. Gio needs to be given a fair shot. At least a platoon with Getz. Gio obviously has a better bat and I love Getz's defense. Right field? Nothing is going to get done at this point. Their really is no options. They can keep Lough up in Spring Training but really?

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

oh and while Im at it....

I do think they will give Davis a chance to start. But I also think they need to go ahead and pencil Chen as the 5th starter. He's not good but I really dont think he's that horrible. They really need to something with Hoch but we know thats not going to happen. And the fact of putting him in the pen is about as idiotic as well.... Mendoza helps boost the bullpen and can be used as a long reliever in the case that it comes up.

[SubGod22]

Chen as a #5 starter isn't bad at all. He'll pitch to give you a chance to win if your offense can do anything. I've given up on Hoch and don't trust Mendoza as an answer. But I do like the potential of Smith back there. With a little more experience I think he could make a very good #4 or #5 starter and eat innings.

Next year is where the rotation will look good. Shields, Guthrie, Duffy, Paulino, Santana, Davis, Lamb, Smith could all be competing for 5 spots.

That's another reason I'm not fond of the trade. Yes, this year we wouldn't have been as good, but next year I'd like our shot with having Duffy and Paulino back and possibly Lamb in the mix as well. Plus we'd have Odorizzi and Myers. What could have been...

I believe both Duffy and Paulino can and will be special guys. Paulino has proven when healthy what he can do and Duffy continued to improve until the injury. I know Lamb isn't proven but a lot of people really like him. Will be interesting to see how he does in AA this year and how long he stays there.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

At this point I would advise to not put any stock into Lamb. He missed most of 2011 AND 2012 after TJ surgery. Nobody quite knows why either. He should be healthy coming into this year so hopefully he does bounce back. Hes going to be at least 2 years away minimum. Even if he pitches well enough to make the big league team next year there is no way in hell he should start. Stranger things have happened so its not impossible but the way things look right now then I dont even know man lol. At one point he was said to be one of the better pitching prospects in the system so we'll see. Im more concerned with the coaching down there as the Royals have not been able to develop a pitcher to save their lives. I know Duffy looks good but maybe he's the exception?

Shields/Duffy/Paulino is going to be great. And thats exactly what I mean buy this bolsters our bullpen. Having guy's like Davis/Smith/Mendoza coming out really helps the short inning guys like Crow/Holland.

[SubGod22]

Lamb pitched well in limited action last year. I'm not counting on him, but I'm not counting him out. It'll be interesting to see what he does at NWA this season. If he does well, considering the lack of pitching we have in AA and AAA, I could see him advancing to Omaha later in the year with a chance at KC in '14. That's obviously best case scenario, but a lot of pitchers are just fine coming off of TJ anymore.

[RoyalShock]

I believe Santana is only under guaranteed contract for 2013, so don't count on him for 2014.

Lamb suffered a secondary injury (ankle?) late in his TJ rehab, which is why he came back so late last season. I'm not counting on him but he could be a factor in 2014 - or trade bait for a corner outfielder.

I would rather have Mendoza as our #5 than Chen. I just think Chen's gig is up. But he's our only lefty starter until Duffy gets back so that likely makes him the #5 by default.