The war on drugs

[Maggie]

Bennett and Califano, former drug czars would argue the marijuana and other drugs of today aren't the marijuana that was smoked 30 years ago. It's stronger, more addictive, and harms more individuals. If you research it a little, they also have a good argument regarding the cost to health care for drug users. They have current statistics regarding what drugs do to our current society. It's difficult to find hard data for legalized drugs since we don't have legalizeddrugs.

I have a lot of respect for those who oppose legalization but I don’t think potency of marijuana is all that relevant.

That said: Do I think marijuana is addictive? Yes, I certainly do despite what some blinkered advocates for legalization might assert. Do I think it is bad for you? Absolutely. Do I think drug use has an adverse effect on society? Of course it does. But its illegality also has an adverse effect on society.

I know it is a touchy subject in many quarters (and politically toxic) but kc is correct to point out the “drug war” has never gone well from a cost benefit standpoint. I haven’t looked this up but I would wager that a large majority of “residents” in penal institutions are there on drug related charges. Many have been charged and convicted of possession – it doesn’t take much. Think for a moment about how much that costs – drug enforcement officials, the court system, housing the inmate, etc. And then think for a moment about whether there has been tangible “progress” in this so-called “war”.

I agree completely with Royal with regard to marijuana – tax it and regulate it at the state level. And lets see if it helps matters because the policy that has been in place, for decades now, is not working.

[MoValley John]

I have never smoked the ganja. If it were legal, I'd probably try it, why not? As for the addictive qualities of marijuana, it is absolutely addictive. Anyone that claims otherwise is fooling themself. If you are for legalizing marijuana, that is all fine and good, but to say we should legalize drugs because the drug war hasn't worked, I rue that day. How about a different approach to the drug war? How about getting to the suppliers, not just the dealers on the streets, but the people that make millions off of the backs of dealers trying to make a living, legal or otherwise, and the addicts that really suffer?

I really don't see any benefit to legalizing marijuana, I'm somewhat against it, but I really don't care so much if they do. On the other hand, I really have a problem with the legalization of morphine, heroin, cocaine and meth.

[Maggie]

IHow about getting to the suppliers, not just the dealers on the streets, but the people that make millions off of the backs of dealers trying to make a living, legal or otherwise, and the addicts that really suffer?

How about recognizing that is what our law enforcement officers have been doing, or trying to do, since before I was born (which now counts four decades) – you should know better MVJ.

Current policy doesn’t make a difference. Why not change?

[MoValley John]

How about recognizing that is what our law enforcement officers have been doing, or trying to do, since before I was born (which now counts four decades) – you should know better MVJ.

Current policy doesn’t make a difference. Why not change?

No they haven't. I know for a fact they haven't. Getting the people I am talking about would take a monumental effort, a huge effort. It would also target people that are very well connected and protected. It would also take a serious effort to control the borders. Not just in Mexico, but in Florida, California and all along the coasts.

I will give you a little example of whom I'm talking about. I know a guy that spent five years in federal prison for smuggling cocaine. He didn't do it, his brother, who laundered his money through a supposed legitimate business did. His brother was and is, a multi-multi-millionaire. The cocaine was found on his brother's plane in Miami. The guy I know took the fall for all of it. He confessed to having a huge drug problem and trying to sneak the drugs in without anyone else knowing.

Needless to say, the guy I know hasn't had to work a day since getting out of prison. His house, country club membership and entire lifestyle is payback for his five year stint in the big house. The feds knew where the drugs came from, they knew the whole deal, they didn't have the stomach to go after the guy that was involved and connected in the community and a big donor to some prominent politicians. They got a conviction, everyone was happy and this guy's brother is still importing drugs.

[SB Shock]

I just did a little research on the Netherlands just to see what the trends were.

1. Even though the Government allowed coffee houses to sell 5g of cannibas, only 32% actually bought it it there. They either bought from dealers or from others (which is illegal). I suspect they were going the illegal route due to cost. Dutch government evidently has decided to scale back the amounts from 5g to 3g.

2. Those using characterized their use as:

1-4 days a month - 45%
5-8 days - 14%
9-20 days - 15%
+20 days - 26%

3. Drug abuse in the Netherlands (1984-1996) increased twofold for 18-25 year olds. Since the legalization of marijuana, herion addiction levels tripled.

4. Netherlands has become the Ecstasy producer of the world. Netherland Government has launched offensive against ecstasy

5. Due to criminal level increase due drug addiction, habitual offenders are now can be detained and incarcerated up to 2 years.

6. Britain tried to relax the drug laws in the '60's - they found 30-fold increase in addicts in the ten years. Evidently people boycotted the program and still bought from dealers.

7. Sweden has taken a zero tolerance to drugs, and drug use is low in Scandinavian countries. Only 1% of the sweden population has ever used cocaine. Netherlands is 2.4%, England 3%, Australia 4.3%, U.S. 10.6%.

8. Only 5% of inmates in the U.S. Federal prison are on drug charges. State prison are 27%

9. In 1999, only 2.5% of possession case in federal court were actually prosecuted.

10. 26-30% of heroin users in Amsterdam have HIV

11. Finland and Germany have the lowest drug using population in Europe.

12. Netherlands maximum sentence for import/export of drugs is 12 years.

13. Drug addicicts in two penal institution:

Over-Amstel - 44% (29% severely addicted)
Scheveningen - 29%

14. Netherlands has 9.7 million ecstasy tablets confiscated outside of country, 3.7 million in country.

15. Netherlands this year is planning to ban foreigners from the coffee shops.

[RoyalShock]

I the Netherlands are a bad comparison. Don't they have a lot of sex tourism there? That place attracts an unsavory element already.

I think I've read that Portugal has had a successful transition to legal marijuana. But I'd have to do the research to verify.

[kcshocker11]

The only thing yo have to worry about in Amsterdam is getting hit by a bicycle. Its a beautiful city, clean, friendly and safe compared to most US cities.

[Kung Wu]

The only thing yo have to worry about in Amsterdam is getting hit by a bicycle. Its a beautiful city, clean, friendly and safe compared to most US cities.

Except for those awful trees full of pigeons right outside the main train station. Holy bird feces, you can smell those suckers 1 kilometer away.

[kcshocker11]

Yes but the ice cold Heinekin makes it all better

[RoyalShock]

My comment had nothing to do with the city's sanitation dept or driving habits. My point is that the morality of the people is different enough from the United States that the comparison isn't a good one.

[Maggie]

No they haven't. I know for a fact they haven't. Getting the people I am talking about would take a monumental effort, a huge effort. It would also target people that are very well connected and protected. It would also take a serious effort to control the borders. Not just in Mexico, but in Florida, California and all along the coasts.

I will give you a little example of whom I'm talking about. I know a guy that spent five years in federal prison for smuggling cocaine. He didn't do it, his brother, who laundered his money through a supposed legitimate business did. His brother was and is, a multi-multi-millionaire. The cocaine was found on his brother's plane in Miami. The guy I know took the fall for all of it. He confessed to having a huge drug problem and trying to sneak the drugs in without anyone else knowing.

Needless to say, the guy I know hasn't had to work a day since getting out of prison. His house, country club membership and entire lifestyle is payback for his five year stint in the big house. The feds knew where the drugs came from, they knew the whole deal, they didn't have the stomach to go after the guy that was involved and connected in the community and a big donor to some prominent politicians. They got a conviction, everyone was happy and this guy's brother is still importing drugs.

That is a categorical statement don’t you think? Your first two sentences, I mean.

I have many friends who work for the FBI, the ATF (certain operations in recent years rub these people the wrong way – they make for sore subjects, which I don’t broach), local law enforcement both in NYC and Hoboken, where I now live. My position is not one, by and large, they agree with. I chalk it up, in part, to pride – and I think they should feel that way. Because they perform duties asked of them – even if it is a cause that it is lost.

One example doesn’t represent the whole.

[BradLy]

I've seen many promising college careers ended because of our failed drug policies. Dental work in Mexico can help cut down on some of the excessive costs associated with it.

[Wu du Nord]

I just did a little research

I guess 'little' is the operative word, here. Or, perhaps, is it the concept of research, in its entirety, that simply boggles your bologna?

Thanks for playing, though.

Have a good time. ;-)

[Kung Wu]

How about a different approach to the drug war? How about getting to the suppliers, not just the dealers on the streets, but the people that make millions off of the backs of dealers trying to make a living, legal or otherwise, and the addicts that really suffer?

Define "supplier" and "dealer" using some legalese that could be used to inform LEO how to distinguish the difference. Also may as well define "user" while at it, so we can be sure when we pull over a car just what we are looking at.

[SB Shock]

I guess 'little' is the operative word, here. Or, perhaps, is it the concept of research, in its entirety, that simply boggles your bologna?

Thanks for playing, though.

Have a good time. ;-)

hey, I did a little more research and found that Netherlands has 19% more crime victims per capita than the U.S.