Should KU & KSU join the MVC?

[MoValley John]

Conference realignment is the number one story in athletics today. It is also a soap opera and a lot of fun if you're not a fan of a team looking at the possibility of losing their place in a BCS AQ conference. Kansas State is one of those teams that may be on the outside looking in.

Furthermore, conference realignment affects every team in the NCAA. That includes Wichita State. It also includes the Valley. How Wichita State and the Valley shake out of this fiasco should concern everyone here. How this wholoe thing will ends up, I don't know, I have no freaking idea! Right now, it looks like all the little schools in the Big XII are banding together to sue anyone that leaves. I don't think they have a leg to stand on, but anyone can sue anyone; it doesn't mean the case wouldn't be thrown out or lost. It is a big threat and Oklahoma and aTm have their hands tied. I read a funny thing today, in the PAC, it takes unanamous consent to add a member and right now, Colorado looks like they will block any move by Texas and probably Oklahoma.

As for Kansas State. They should be a topic of concern here, as most Shocker fans live in the state, pay taxes and support the school. So looking at Kansas State, they are in the position that they are in because over the course of the last century, they have done nothing to raise their value. They took from the Big 8, they took from the Big XII and they never established a national, much less, regional brand. That is also why they are in such bad position- they can't sell themselves to anyone, not without KU.

There are 120 FBS programs, all jockeying to be included in the elite 64. There will be winners and losers. If we get to 64 teams in four conferences, even Notre Dame will have to join, thus making it more difficult for the Wildcats. So will BYU. Considering that the noose is clearly around the neck of Kansas State and Wichita State is located in Kansas, it is not too much of a strech to discuss them falling all the way to the Missouri Valley. Nobody seriously thinks that they will drop that far, but there is nothing out of line with discussing their fate, opining on their future and outlaying their shortcomings that have put them in this position. Kansas State is a higher profile than the Valley, but they aren't higher profile because of anything they did to better their stock, only because of the conferences that they have been in.

[shockyhawky]

As for Kansas State. They should be a topic of concern here, as most Shocker fans live in the state, pay taxes and support the school. So looking at Kansas State, they are in the position that they are in because over the course of the last century, they have done nothing to raise their value. They took from the Big 8, they took from the Big XII and they never established a national, much less, regional brand. That is also why they are in such bad position- they can't sell themselves to anyone, not without KU.

I am really surprised that this thread has gone on for four (4) pages, mostly fueled by one KU honk (troll). I thought seriously about researching and posting all of KSU's accomplishments over the last 100 years, but I have a life.

Suffice it to say, it is common knowledge that KSU has actually won the Big 12 in football, and played in the championship game more than once, winning the North multiple times. KU has never even won the North. KSU was only a few seconds away from the National Championship in 1998. Everyone knows names like Lockett, Sprouls, Newman, Freeman and Nelson in the NFL.

If you don't know KSU basketball history, then you should. KU honk uses "the last century". Look back at KSU from 1950 till today. You will see a relatively short bad period of time. You will also see NCAA championship games and #1 rankings. Oh, and an Elite 8 just 2 years ago.

Oh well, I'm done providing info off the top of my head. Look into getting tickets at Memorial Stadium, where the only tradition is "leave at halftime". You can also get any ticket, straight from KU Athletics, to any basketball game, except KSU. I got tickets to the Texas game last year. The TX fans were talking trash after the game, and all I wanted to ask is "Why can't TX beat KSU?"

BTW, KSU went 12-1 against KU last year in all sports, and KU had 3 NBA players get beat down 84-68 in Bramlage!

[SubGod22]

As for Kansas State. They should be a topic of concern here, as most Shocker fans live in the state, pay taxes and support the school. So looking at Kansas State, they are in the position that they are in because over the course of the last century, they have done nothing to raise their value. They took from the Big 8, they took from the Big XII and they never established a national, much less, regional brand. That is also why they are in such bad position- they can't sell themselves to anyone, not without KU.

I am really surprised that this thread has gone on for four (4) pages, mostly fueled by one KU honk (troll). I thought seriously about researching and posting all of KSU's accomplishments over the last 100 years, but I have a life.

Suffice it to say, it is common knowledge that KSU has actually won the Big 12 in football, and played in the championship game more than once, winning the North multiple times. KU has never even won the North. KSU was only a few seconds away from the National Championship in 1998. Everyone knows names like Lockett, Sprouls, Newman, Freeman and Nelson in the NFL.

If you don't know KSU basketball history, then you should. KU honk uses "the last century". Look back at KSU from 1950 till today. You will see a relatively short bad period of time. You will also see NCAA championship games and #1 rankings. Oh, and an Elite 8 just 2 years ago.

Oh well, I'm done providing info off the top of my head. Look into getting tickets at Memorial Stadium, where the only tradition is "leave at halftime". You can also get any ticket, straight from KU Athletics, to any basketball game, except KSU. I got tickets to the Texas game last year. The TX fans were talking trash after the game, and all I wanted to ask is "Why can't TX beat KSU?"

BTW, KSU went 12-1 against KU last year in all sports, and KU had 3 NBA players get beat down 84-68 in Bramlage!

:yawn:

[Aargh]

As for Kansas State. They should be a topic of concern here, as most Shocker fans live in the state, pay taxes and support the school. So looking at Kansas State, they are in the position that they are in because over the course of the last century, they have done nothing to raise their value. They took from the Big 8, they took from the Big XII and they never established a national, much less, regional brand. That is also why they are in such bad position- they can't sell themselves to anyone, not without KU.

I am really surprised that this thread has gone on for four (4) pages, mostly fueled by one KU honk (troll). I thought seriously about researching and posting all of KSU's accomplishments over the last 100 years, but I have a life.

Suffice it to say, it is common knowledge that KSU has actually won the Big 12 in football, and played in the championship game more than once, winning the North multiple times. KU has never even won the North. KSU was only a few seconds away from the National Championship in 1998. Everyone knows names like Lockett, Sprouls, Newman, Freeman and Nelson in the NFL.

If you don't know KSU basketball history, then you should. KU honk uses "the last century". Look back at KSU from 1950 till today. You will see a relatively short bad period of time. You will also see NCAA championship games and #1 rankings. Oh, and an Elite 8 just 2 years ago.

Oh well, I'm done providing info off the top of my head. Look into getting tickets at Memorial Stadium, where the only tradition is "leave at halftime". You can also get any ticket, straight from KU Athletics, to any basketball game, except KSU. I got tickets to the Texas game last year. The TX fans were talking trash after the game, and all I wanted to ask is "Why can't TX beat KSU?"

BTW, KSU went 12-1 against KU last year in all sports, and KU had 3 NBA players get beat down 84-68 in Bramlage!

This post needs to go in the dictionary as an example of the meaning of the word clueless.

Let me try to explain this thread. The thread was started as a joke. The title was a bit of sarcasm, but raised the valid discussion point of the future conference affiliations of KU and KSU. This will continue to be a topic of discussion as long as the Big 12 keeps amputating a foot in an attempt to avoid shooting themselves in the foot.

MoValleyJohn is actually an independent observer who lives in Nebraska and brings an out-of-state and pretty danged objective viewpoint to many discussions here. He's anything but a KU Honk.

Here's KSU's FB history in a nutshell. 80 years of worst team in the history of the NCAA. 10 years of relevance. 10 years of mediocrity. Compare that to the legitimate BCS schools like OU, Texas, Alabama, Michigan, etc. Those schools FB history is 100 years of relevance.

If a school wants to join the "Big Boys Club" that will be the FB landscape after the realignment shakes out, it doesn't seem that threatening to sue the Big Boys is a good move. KSU, ISU, and Baylor may have sealed their fate by threatening to sue aTm. That's not going to make those schools more desirable when conference evaluate potential expansion options.

[MoValley John]

I'm sorry. As a Kansas honk (troll) I really need to be more sensitive to little brother over at Kansas State. Sometimes we Kansas honks (trolls) get out of line.



Okay.... Now to put forth a point. When a Kansas State fan brags about great accomplishments, things that are designed to turn heads and make people listen, and that Kansas State fan spouts, "KSU has actually won the Big 12 in football, and played in the championship game more than once, winning the North multiple times" you just proved my point. The highlight of Kansas State athletic history is winning a conference. The highlight of the University of Kansas is multiple basketball national championships. They can also toss in a few track national championships for good measure. Wichita State can cling to their baseball national championship, and if they are really desperate, they can mention bowling. But at least they can spout national championships, when Kansas State apologists chime in, it's always about a few conference titles in football and runs in the NCAA basketball tourney. Yet not one national championship in anything. None. Zilch. Nada. People take notice of national championships. Its what drives fandom across state borders, regionally and then nationally. This is what drives tee shirt sales., not "Hey, a decade ago we won our conference!"

[MoValley John]

If a school wants to join the "Big Boys Club" that will be the FB landscape after the realignment shakes out, it doesn't seem that threatening to sue the Big Boys is a good move. KSU, ISU, and Baylor may have sealed their fate by threatening to sue aTm. That's not going to make those schools more desirable when conference evaluate potential expansion options.

This is pretty much the consensus from fans at schools not looking at being left on the outside of conference realignment. Texas fans, for instance, are upset that aTm is leaving. They also wish the drama was over so that they could move on. Oklahoma fans simply want to move on. The list goes on. Conference presidents get to see the desperation and the irrelevance, first hand, of the schools that will hold things up with threatened litigation. This limits, not enhances, Kansas State's opportunities when the break up of the Big XII eventually happens.

Kansas State, Iowa State and Baylor are telegraphing that not only are they the little fish in the pond, they are the snail darters, the insiginificant fish that will hold up the needed dam project because they can't survive on their own.

[SubGod22]

I heard about Baylor threatening litigation, but not KSU and ISU. Have they really done so?

[MoValley John]

I heard about Baylor threatening litigation, but not KSU and ISU. Have they really done so?

Ken Starr and Baylor are threatening litigation. The other little schools refuse to sign the waiver allowing aTm to leave. They are essentially riding on Baylor's coattails.

[SubGod22]

I heard about Baylor threatening litigation, but not KSU and ISU. Have they really done so?

Ken Starr and Baylor are threatening litigation. The other little schools refuse to sign the waiver allowing aTm to leave. They are essentially riding on Baylor's coattails.

I see. I was under the impression that everyone else had signed and it was only Baylor causing problems. If KSU and ISU also refuse, it definitely doesn't look good for them when it comes to the rapid expansion of the others.

I don't think it'll surprise anyone if ISU gets left out. KSU fans seem to think they fit in with the others. Time will tell if KU pulls them along. I know it's football driven, but KU's basketball team WILL get them a spot in some conference.

[Aargh]

I heard about Baylor threatening litigation, but not KSU and ISU. Have they really done so?

http://www.kansas.com/2011/09/08/2006201/big-12-schools-block-ams-move.html#storylink=omni_popular

That article has a misprint in it. It says Kansas is joining the holdup. It should say Kansas State - not Kansas.

Later in the article it says something to the effect that KU is tking a "wait and see" approach. KSU - not Kansas holding up aTm's departure and KU waiting to see what happens corresponds with other reports.

[SubGod22]

Baylor’s Plan B? The Big East

Baylor administrators have had discussions with the Big East and are confident the league would extend an invitation to the Bears if the Big 12 implodes, a source with knowledge of the conversations told Yahoo! Sports on Wednesday night.

“There haven’t been any guarantees,” the source said. “But [Baylor] feels strongly that that’s what would happen.”

Big East officials declined to comment, but it’s certainly not difficult to see why the conference would value Baylor. The Bears are surging in football and men’s basketball and are a perennial contender for the NCAA title in women’s basketball.

The SEC agreed earlier this week to extend an invitation to Texas A&M – but only if the other nine Big 12 schools waived their rights to pursue litigation against the SEC. On Wednesday it was reported that Baylor had refused to agree to those terms. By the end of the day, seven other schools – Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Missouri, Iowa State, Kansas and Kansas State – had joined the Bears in their stand.

This makes it sound like 0U is the only one not to

[Aargh]

The current status of the B12 (or 9 or 10) illustrated:

[MoValley John]

It has more to do with the statements the schools have made and how they have been interpreted. It's like trying to read tea leaves. Schools aren't willing to waive their rights, but that is different than schools stating they will or won't sue. If I were a university president, I probably wouldn't sign the document, either. But Baylor was the first to come with guns blazing. Iowa State and Kansas State have made overatures that they would sue as well. Others have been less forward about the idea. While getting signatures has been hard to come by, different schools have made different statements indicating that they wouldn't sue.

Once again, it's like reading tea leaves, inexact and often inaccurate.

[The Mad Hatter]

Hey now MVJ, I think you are forgetting about KSU's 3 team equestrian national championships (along with 5 individual national championships).

I mean sure, only 18 schools compete in NCAA DI equestrian, but they still count right?

[1972Shocker]

A lot of discussion has centered around having four 16-team super-conferences but it is really difficult to predict where this will all end up.

We might end up with six 16-team conferences (96 teams) or five 20-teams conferences (which really, after breaking these teams into divisions means ten - 10 teams conferences with perhaps some inter-division play in some sports). Maybe we end up with four 16-team conferences, one 20-team conference and two 10-team conferences (104 teams). Really difficult to say and this could take a few years to play out or maybe there will be a catalyst to cause this to all come together quckly.

KSU, ISU and Baylor definitely have the most to be concerned about amont Big XII teams but I think KSU probably will end up somewhere in this Top 100 conglomeration. I think Iowa State is definitely on the bubble here. One of the problems KSU has is their proximity to KU. They really don't deliver a whole lot in the way of TV markets that KU won't deliver on their own. Isn't that what is really driving all of this -- TV money and markets?

Not sure Iowa State delivers anything that Iowa doesn't pretty much deliver and Baylor surely doesn't deliver anything Texas and aTm aren't already pretty much delivering.

There are probably a number of Big East teams that are also on the bubble when it comes to the eventual shake out.

In any case, it is very interesting stuff to follow.