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Hopefully, those power that be are following this thread.
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The Assman -
"The Wichita State University"... those were the days my friends. Talk about a 'name change' fiasco.
"You Just Want to Slap The #### Outta Some People"Comment
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While Wichita State is not particularly a big school enrollment wise I don't agree with your implication that Wichita State is not a farily established brand. The name change was made in 1964 when the university joined the state system of higher education and I think it is a very well established brand and has become substantially more established since Jim Schaus and now John Bardo.Originally posted by SHOCKvalue View Post
When you look at the AAC schools you kind of have a hodge podge. You have the privates (SMU, Tulsa and Tulane), the formerly private/now public (Temple), the publics located in the states large metro markets (Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis and Wichita), the directional schools (ECU, USF and UCF) and one schools name simply for the state it is locate in (UConn) and I suspect each institution has its own unique history.
Not sure how many were around 54 years ago but when the university was popularly know as Wichita Universirty or WU (technically I think the name was still the Municipal University of Wichita). At that time the university also had a less than flattering nickname used by many. Hillside High. That lingered for a while after the after the change to Wichita State University but we eventually moved beyond that. The strides the university has made since becoming Wichita State University have been very positive and meaningful and I would also had hard won. I am very proud of what my alma mater, Wichita State University, has achieved in the last 5 decades and it only seems to be gaining momentum in the last 2 decades. Reverting back to a mid-60's name doesn't particularly resonate with me but then I still have memories of the Hillside High insults. I have absolutely no feelngs of infreriority about the Wichtia State name and brand.
IMO what you achieve and accomplish as an organization together wirh how you go about doing that are far more important to your prestige than your name. IMHO, those achievenments and accomplishments have been far more significant and far more postive during our time as Wichita State University than during any of other time in school history. I certainly don't feel like a second class citizen in the AAC because of the Wichita State name.
In any case, I think the chances of a change being made are very slim at best.
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This is going to be a long post, but it will provide history and context, which will ultimately lead to why the name change could (and should) happen.
1) A little on WU's history and its transition from a municipal university, to joining the state system (and fight to stay "WU")
Before we get straight to this, let go back a little bit to WU came to be a municipal university.
Fairmount College (founded in 1895) was having trouble with funding (and lack of Congregationalism in the West) and became the Municipal University of Wichita in early 1926, to avoid closing the school from down. "WU," as the University quickly became known, reflected the strengths of Fairmount with colleges of liberal arts, commerce and industry, and education.^1
Among a new breed of municipal institutions and the first West of the Mississippi River, WU was controlled by a Board of Regents representing the City Commission and the School Board.^1
More issues arouse however
The city a having trouble supporting the university without charging a higher tuition than students paid at state schools. Thus, a bitter battle began for inclusion of WU in the state system, and in 1963, the group the led the charge to join system proved to be successful. ^1
After 38 years as a municipal university, the University again changed its status July 1, 1964, when it officially entered the state system of higher education. The transition was not without its tragedies. Such animosity had been generated in the fight to become a state institution that President Corbin resigned to help heal the wounds. ^1
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Now that we know the history of WU and its transition to WSU, we can look at a couple other cases of municipal schools, joining the state system.
I know people say “They have 'State' in their name, because they are a part of the State school system (KBOR). Thus, they have to have 'State’ in their name."
To you good gents (and ladies), I would say that is incorrect.
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2) There is a history of other municipal universities joining their state's system
As I have mentioned, WU was a municipal university, which means it was city supported. It was the oldest West of the Mississippi (the oldest, in general, being College of Charleston).
Other former municipal universities include:^2 (any of those look familiar?)
- Washburn University
- University of Louisville
- University of Cincinnati
- University of Toledo
- University of Nebraska-Omaha
- University of Akron
- Wayne State University
Now I say former municipal universities, because public municipal universities don't really exist any more.
In fact, only two schools/systems remain under partial city control today:^2
- City University of New York (CUNY) system
- Quincy College
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As we can see, not only is there a history of municipal universities joining their respective state's system, but there is a history of those universities keeping their names.
For more context, look no further than our conference mates
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3) Our fellow (and former) conference mates have had similar transition experiences, yet keep their names
the University of Louisville, joined the Kentucky school system in 1970 (after facing a similar battle that W had).^3 Yet, even though they joined the Kentucky system, they didn't have to become Louisville State University or take on the UK name (though they tried that idea, and it was quickly shutdown.^3).
the University of Cincinnati, became a “municipally-sponsored, state-affiliated” institution. During this time, it was the second-oldest and second-largest municipal university in the country. In 1977, it offically became one of Ohio's state universities.^4
Just for context, here is a list of both Kentucky's State Universities and KCTCS and University System of Ohio.
Another example in the AAC, the University of Houston (another private school facing financial issues) joined the state system of higher education in 1963, until the founding of the University of Houston System (a state system) in 1977.^5
Granted, in 1983, the university appended its official name to University of Houston–University Park; however, the name was changed back to University of Houston on August 26, 1991. This name change was an effort by the UH System to give its flagship institution a distinctive name. (among other reasons).^6
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I am sure I can find more examples (University of Pittsburgh), but literally, every public university, with city in its name, in the AAC, are part of their state's school system (or city's system that is a state-funded system), yet WSU is the ONLY one that had to change its name.
I already mentioned, in a previous post, the reasons why the University of Memphis changed their name and why I believe similar success could be had at WSU, with more context I think it makes even more sense.
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4) Look at fellow in state school Washburn University
Wasburn is in a bit of a unique situation, as it is considered a "municipal subdivision" of Kansas. This is because the University's primary funding is county sales tax. ^7
Now, that doesn't mean they don't receive state funds, as they have since 1961. They also have their own Board of Directors.^7
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Now, I am not saying we should move to the Washburn method. What I am saying, is they get to be a part of KBOR while getting to have some anonymity as well.
If Washburn can be a part of KBOR without being Washburn State, why can't Wichita State be on KBOR will being University of Wichita?
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5) City and University Pride
It seems simple to me why these universities would want keep a sense of anonymity with their names. It gives them their own unique brand and culture. The city has a relationship with the city and visa versa; more so than it does with the state. They university is proud to be a part of the city and the city is proud to have the university.
Ultimately, they want what is best for each other, because there is more of a sense of community and passion. With the state system, they have to divvy the pie up how KU wants... I mean, fairly, among all members...... There is nothing special in that connection.
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How does this effect the city of Wichita and Wichita State University? Why is the time right?
Wichita is in a unique position were pride in both the city and university (at least the Shocker athletic programs) are surging:
- More people are flying Wichita flags then ever. More people are becoming Shocker fans then ever.
- They city is going through a renaissance with all new construction in the downtown area. The University is going through a resurgence with the Innovation Campus.
What better time to make the switch?
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It's time to graduate to a higher level. It's time to make the change. It time to #MakeWichitaStateWUAgain.
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^1 = https://libraries.wichita.edu/ablah/index.php?id=129
^2 = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipal_college
^3 = http://louisville.edu/ur/ucomm/mags/.../archives.html
^4 = http://magazine.uc.edu/issues/1103/history.html
^5 = http://www.uh.edu/about/history/
^6 = https://plexuss.com/college/university-of-houston
^7 = http://www.washburn.edu/current-stud...dent_Hndbk.pdfThe AssmanComment
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Regarding point #1, I see that you have pointed out other state universities that don't have state in their name, but those examples all exist outside of the state of Kansas.Originally posted by Shock Top View Post
It is a rule in KANSAS that a state institution has the word "state" in its name (with the exception of the flagship, of course). I don't have much time today but I will try to find a reference for that and include it as a comment to this post.
Regarding point #4, Washburn is not a state university. As you correctly pointed out, it is a unique situation, but you're not correct in asserting it is part of the KBOR. It has its own board of regents, and is not part of KBOR. It does receive state funding in addition to the county sales tax--THAT is why it's unique. Again, Washburn is NOT a state school.
The rest of your post is compelling. Thanks for taking the time to put all that information together."It's amazing to watch Ron slide into that open area, Fred will find him and it's straight cash homie."--HCGMComment
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Thanks for recking half my argument! Ha
I guess, Washburn has one member on their board represented by KBOR. They are also listed on the KBOR institutions webpage. That led to some confusion.
To be honest, it probably would benefit WU to be able to do their own thing. They’d have their own med school for one thing; probably a law school too.
I mean, what kind of stupid rule is that KBOR has? You’d think they’d want each school to have the biggest and best branding as possible.
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Washburn's arrangement seems ideal, IMO. Some state funding, but still mostly autonomous. You can bet that if Washburn were a full-on KBOR member they would have never had a law school. Having two law schools gives twice (or whatever) the number of Kansas residents preferred access to such a grad school. Everyone wins, because there are more people qualified for law school than there are law school spots in a given year. More law school graduates means more bar-qualified lawyers (assumedly), and so the free market can then sort out the creme at the top, rather than insular academic types from ivory towers.
The same EXACT analogy can be made for medical schools, but the KBOR needs to constantly fluffy KU's skirt. There is FAR more demand for medical doctors in the US than there is supply, and PLENTY of people who could well-complete the process, but various forces keep supply down so that MD wages stay unsustainable. One of those forces is collusion similar to what we see between KU Med and the KBOR.
The State of Kansas needs a dental school, badly and embarrassingly so. WSU has taken initial steps that direction, and (IIRC) the KBOR has already made it perfectly clear they will not allow WSU such a toy... at the expense of the citizens of Kansas. If we are to have a dental school in the state of Kansas, it will be KU's baby, or we won't have one at all. I guess because WSU sucks so badly what with medical training like the RN, ARNP, PT and PA programs we already somehow have.Comment
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Michigan State, Penn State, Ohio State, Florida State, North Carolina State,Iowa State, Ohlahoma State, Kansas State, Arizona State, Oregon State, Washington State,Mississippi State.Originally posted by SHOCKvalue View Post
"I not sure that I've ever been around a more competitive player or young man than Fred VanVleet. I like to win more than 99.9% of the people in this world, but he may top me." -- Gregg Marshall 12/23/13 :peaceful:
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Remember when Nancy Pelosi said about Obamacare:
"We have to pass it, to find out what's in it".
A physician called into a radio show and said:
"That's the definition of a stool sample."Comment
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Isn't it also true that if you don't have "State" in your name, and you're not in the P5, it is more or less a sign of mid-major irrelevance? Would that not indicate the key factor is not the name but the conference affiliation? If we were in a P-5 conference would it matter that we have "State" in our name?Originally posted by SHOCKvalue View Post
Yes, the Shockers are the only team in the AAC with "State" as part of their name. I don't believe the Shockers are the least relevant program in the AAC, but if they are it may be due more to not having football than the name on the jerseys. Hanging around in the Valley as it descended into mediocrity did not particularly help our case either. But again that is conference affiliation that is the key factor. Not the name on the uniforms.
The NBA and MLB don't seem to be too put off these days by Shocker athletes having the word "State" on their unis.
Doesn't a school's relevance really come down to how its teams perform on the field of play and compete at the highest level of the sport? Is Kansas a relevant program in football? Is Nebraska a relevant program in men's basketball? No doubt the Shockers were not relevant in the 1990's but we fixed that thanks largely to Jim Schaus and efforts of the coaches he hired. Despite still having "State" in our name we somehow became much more relevant since then. Would it have made a difference had we not had "State" as part of our name?
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Can you name another state school in the so-called "P6" that is a city-state school, like us? I can name off a whole gaggle of city-state universities that are total nothing burgers in the hierarchy of college sports. I can name very, very few state-state schools where that is true.Originally posted by 1972Shocker View Post
The rest of this is all basically an argument that branding means nothing, which is silly. An entire segment of our economy is dedicated to market positioning, and the businesses and firms in that segment have clients in higher education.Originally posted by 1972Shocker View PostComment
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I guess the fact that we are the only city-state school in that group shows you how special we have become.
Branding is important and we have a damn good brand in Wichita State built up with great effort aned investment that folks are all to eager to throw away with no assurance that dropping the :"State" from the name would make any positive difference to that branding at a time when Wichita State University has significant commitments both academically and ahtleitically.
You can have the last word if you like. -
I don't have a need for the last word. You engaged me, not the other way around.
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A couple of points...there is no logical reason in 2018 that the SBOE should require us to have State in our name. They would recieve serious backlash for fighting this considering the history. With the new direction Bardo has this University pointed towards along with moving to a new conference, now is the perfect time to make the switch. As to the reference of a connection between "Hillside High" and WU I have never made that connection and doubt anyone under 70 has. I don't doubt those fears though since I didn't live through it but frankly they are unfounded. Lastly, a lot of the national media already refer to us as Wichita during Pxp broadcast. It's an easy abbreviation to make since most of our conference mates are similarly named. The University of Wichita with the acronym of WU honestly just makes a ton of sense and I hope we look at making the change.Comment
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MAKE WSU
WU AGAINThe AssmanComment
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Don't take this the wrong way old guys (I just turned 40 so I guess I am old guy now too btw) but....when I was kid my grandfather, his friends, our older neighbor all referred to WSU as Wichita U and hated the "State" part. It used to drive me nuts! Fast forward a generation and the new old guys can't bare the thought of being called anything but Wichita State. It's just funny how life is cyclical.
I love college football and the closest equivalent to Shocker basketball is probably Boise State football. They are by far the best branded non P5 and have a mega love affair with ESPN. Yet listen to the announcers during a game, read the college football forums, they are more frequently just called Boise then anything else. In the sports world, everybody knows who you are talking about. When you mention Wichita instead of Wichita State it is the same. The brand that has been built up is Wichita. Say that name and every basketball fan knows exactly who you are talking about.Comment
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Now that SN has voted, where is the action on the name change?"I not sure that I've ever been around a more competitive player or young man than Fred VanVleet. I like to win more than 99.9% of the people in this world, but he may top me." -- Gregg Marshall 12/23/13 :peaceful:
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Remember when Nancy Pelosi said about Obamacare:
"We have to pass it, to find out what's in it".
A physician called into a radio show and said:
"That's the definition of a stool sample."Comment
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We’re waiting for “The Shocker Faithful” on Facebook as to how best move forward. They’re currently busy debating Pinterest quilt designs and the best way to bedazzle Wu onto jeans, so as the inferiors we’ll have to wait our turn.Originally posted by im4wsu View PostComment
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