Sorry...

[1972Shocker]

Good points as always TMH. Of course, we don't play the games in a vacuum so it is not just what we lose and what we have coming back and newcomers coming in, but this is all relative to what our competition (the MVC) loses and has coming back and who can get the most improvement from one year to the next.

Our big loss with Annie will be her rebounding and defense. I don't think replacing her offense will be as big of an issue, especially if Kiki's health is much better next year. Although with backs you just never know how that will go. Hopefully well.

What Lexee did bring to the guard position was some decent size at 5'11".
One reason Lexee shot a lot of three's was that between her size, athleticism and quick release she could get a lot of them off although she was very inconsistent at best. I actually thought her mid-range jumper was her real strength that she did not take enough advantage of. Also, Lexee was one of our better perimeter defenders.

Daria Frazier may be key to next year's team if she can somehow harness her athleticism and develop some basketball IQ.

Whitney has been playing much better lately so I look for a better year from her next year.

I love Frannie's stroke, but she has difficulty getting open looks and her defense is suspect from what I have seen.

I think Marcy will blossom into a very fine player for the Shockers next year, although we are losing some height and athleticism with Marcy vs Antionette.

Still all in all, I think it will be difficult for the Shockers to move back into the upper division of the MVC next year with things as they are.

[The Mad Hatter]

Good points as always TMH. Of course, we don't play the games in a vacuum so it is not just what we lose and what we have coming back and newcomers coming in, but this is all relative to what our competition (the MVC) loses and has coming back and who can get the most improvement from one year to the next.

Our big loss with Annie will be her rebounding and defense. I don't think replacing her offense will be as big of an issue, especially if Kiki's health is much better next year. Although with backs you just never know how that will go. Hopefully well.

What Lexee did bring to the guard position was some decent size at 5'11".
One reason Lexee shot a lot of three's was that between her size, athleticism and quick release she could get a lot of them off although she was very inconsistent at best. I actually thought her mid-range jumper was her real strength that she did not take enough advantage of. Also, Lexee was one of our better perimeter defenders.

Daria Frazier may be key to next year's team if she can somehow harness her athleticism and develop some basketball IQ.

Whitney has been playing much better lately so I look for a better year from her next year.

I love Frannie's stroke, but she has difficulty getting open looks and her defense is suspect from what I have seen.

I think Marcy will blossom into a very fine player for the Shockers next year, although we are losing some height and athleticism with Marcy vs Antionette.

Still all in all, I think it will be difficult for the Shockers to move back into the upper division of the MVC next year with things as they are.

I have a hard time disagreeing with anything you said here. My only hope is that this team was inexplicably bad this year, and maybe they will be inexplicably good next year.

[1972Shocker]

Basketball TEAMS are an interesting organism. Really hard to predict how a small adjustment to one of the parts can make a big difference or perhaps simply an attitude adjustment by the players. Maybe we will catch lightning in a bottle with one of our incoming freshman.

I see us moving ahead of UNI and Bradley next year. Missouri State should be better, so I hope we can hold them off. Hopefully, a healthier Kiki and a good year from Whitney and Daria will do the trick.

That would move us up into 7th place. I think preseason the Shocks will be picked 7th or 8th. A 6th place finish next year would be a good step forward. A top 5 finish would be a pleasant surprise.

[ShockerFever]

Bye Jane.

[ictshockolate]

Where does one start after an ugly loss like that, if this was American Idol the whole starting five would be voted off. Some one explain to me how a coach can stick with players who just dont get it done. Sooner or later she should think about giving some of the younger players a little more playing time. Really it hasnt been much of a year for the big three leaders Annie, Kiki,Lexee. Annie rebounded solid but really has been inconsistent with her scoring, really isnt much for dishing out assists. It seems to me all the games I have seen, once it goes in it doesnt come out. Maybe the coaches dont teach that part of the game, but good teams need a good passing center, low marks here. Kiki is the same way not much of a person for dealing out assists, look at the numbers, they dont lie. Only a handfull of assists for some-one who plays that many minutes. Easy to scout and guard when you know the two top front line players arent going to give it up. And lexee has been in a big time slump over the last 13 games. Shes shooting 26%, 19% from threes while playing 30 minutes a game. So when you have your supposed stars playing like this then its little wonder that we are 9-19. No-body else has stepped up, but really how can you when you are not in the game, or you have little room for error before Al-Notbright gives you the hook. It just seems some players on the team have more room for error than otheirs,even though it isnt warranted.In my eyes it is pretty obvious, and I believe the players notice too. Therefore descension.Jane has lost control of her team, oh they will say the right things if you ask the right players, but she has lost their trust and respect, because it is not a level playing field. Its a double-standard when it comes to how she treats and handles her players.

[The Mad Hatter]

Where does one start after an ugly loss like that, if this was American Idol the whole starting five would be voted off. Some one explain to me how a coach can stick with players who just dont get it done. Sooner or later she should think about giving some of the younger players a little more playing time. Really it hasnt been much of a year for the big three leaders Annie, Kiki,Lexee. Annie rebounded solid but really has been inconsistent with her scoring, really isnt much for dishing out assists. It seems to me all the games I have seen, once it goes in it doesnt come out. Maybe the coaches dont teach that part of the game, but good teams need a good passing center, low marks here. Kiki is the same way not much of a person for dealing out assists, look at the numbers, they dont lie. Only a handfull of assists for some-one who plays that many minutes. Easy to scout and guard when you know the two top front line players arent going to give it up. And lexee has been in a big time slump over the last 13 games. Shes shooting 26%, 19% from threes while playing 30 minutes a game. So when you have your supposed stars playing like this then its little wonder that we are 9-19. No-body else has stepped up, but really how can you when you are not in the game, or you have little room for error before Al-Notbright gives you the hook. It just seems some players on the team have more room for error than otheirs,even though it isnt warranted.In my eyes it is pretty obvious, and I believe the players notice too. Therefore descension.Jane has lost control of her team, oh they will say the right things if you ask the right players, but she has lost their trust and respect, because it is not a level playing field. Its a double-standard when it comes to how she treats and handles her players.

Who is supposed to play in place of the starters? I like Frannie, but she can't defend anyone right now. Kyrie has gotten playing time, but has not shown that she can be consistent. If you think Annie and Kiki (one of whom is playing through injury) are bad in the post, note 1. Marcy does get playing time 2. Kristen has been awful when she has gotten in. I wouldn't mind seeing Alex get more playing time though.

Frannie, Kristen, and Alex are the only healthy players that average less than 14 minutes per game. Given their play, I think only Alex has any argument for more playing time. The fact is that Jane has run a VERY DEEP BENCH. Having the team leader in minutes be only 30.3 a game is very low. We have 8 players averaging over 10 minutes a game (9 if you count Jacie).

[ShockTalk]

I'll be the first to admit, I don't follow WSU women's bb as close as I use to. I know there were good reasons to make the coaching change from Smith to Albright, but darn it, Smith and his teams were fun, colorful, and more successful (on the court). I did think the hire of Albright was a good move to improve all aspects of the women's team. But the truth is that it hasn't happened and this is D1 bb. Hargrove's winning % improved over .60 from Harden and Smith's improved another .60 over Hargrove. I wasn't looking for another .60 improvement, but I also didn't expect a lower winning % than a PE instructor. One thing missing from this thread as to why Albright should stay or leave is recuits. Can anyone fill me in as to who she's bringing in next year and how good of prospects they may be? With a healthy Hoyt and Kiki and impact freshmen, she should stay. If not much is expected from the newcomers, then this may be a good time to make the change.

[The Mad Hatter]

I'll be the first to admit, I don't follow WSU women's bb as close as I use to. I know there were good reasons to make the coaching change from Smith to Albright, but darn it, Smith and his teams were fun, colorful, and more successful (on the court). I did think the hire of Albright was a good move to improve all aspects of the women's team. But the truth is that it hasn't happened and this is D1 bb. Hargrove's winning % improved over .60 from Harden and Smith's improved another .60 over Hargrove. I wasn't looking for another .60 improvement, but I also didn't expect a lower winning % than a PE instructor. One thing missing from this thread as to why Albright should stay or leave is recuits. Can anyone fill me in as to who she's bringing in next year and how good of prospects they may be? With a healthy Hoyt and Kiki and impact freshmen, she should stay. If not much is expected from the newcomers, then this may be a good time to make the change.

Info on WSU recruits:

http://www.goshockers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=61195&SPID=2852&DB_OEM_ID=7500&ATCLID=682548

and

http://www.goshockers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=61195&SPID=2852&DB_OEM_ID=7500&ATCLID=690288

With the departure we have one more scholarship, which we may or may not fill this year.

[SpanglerFan316]

5) How long should the current coaching staff be given to prove themselves? Given the quarter-century-long history of a poor-to-mediocre quality program in women's basketball at Wichita State, I say: What's the big hurry? Any coaching change is going to cause a delay of 3-4 years in establishing a strong winning program. Given her track record of turning not just one, but TWO programs around in a big way, and given the fact that we can be so proud of the way these young ladies represent us, I would suggest that we all sit tight, and enjoy the anticipation of what is soon to happen (and what may have happened this year, if it were not for the factors outlined above).

2006 Preseason Poll (selected by coaches, SIDs and media)
1. Drake (28 ), 373
2. Wichita State (10), 345

http://www.mvc-sports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=36318&SPID=2897&DB_OEM_ID=7600&ATCLID=6607

Women's Basketball
Team MVC All
Southern Illinois 16-2 20-9
Illinois St. 13-5 20-9
Indiana State 12-6 19-10
Evansville 11-7 18-11
Northern Iowa 11-7 17-12
Creighton 8-10 11-18
Bradley 7-11 11-18
Drake 5-13 10-18
Wichita St. 4-14 9-19
Missouri State 3-15 7-20


When the Valley experts pick you second and you finish ninth, then the answer to "How long should the current coaching staff be given to prove themselves?" is Not very long.

[The Mad Hatter]

5) How long should the current coaching staff be given to prove themselves? Given the quarter-century-long history of a poor-to-mediocre quality program in women's basketball at Wichita State, I say: What's the big hurry? Any coaching change is going to cause a delay of 3-4 years in establishing a strong winning program. Given her track record of turning not just one, but TWO programs around in a big way, and given the fact that we can be so proud of the way these young ladies represent us, I would suggest that we all sit tight, and enjoy the anticipation of what is soon to happen (and what may have happened this year, if it were not for the factors outlined above).

2006 Preseason Poll (selected by coaches, SIDs and media)
1. Drake (28 ), 373
2. Wichita State (10), 345

http://www.mvc-sports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=36318&SPID=2897&DB_OEM_ID=7600&ATCLID=6607

Women's Basketball
Team MVC All
Southern Illinois 16-2 20-9
Illinois St. 13-5 20-9
Indiana State 12-6 19-10
Evansville 11-7 18-11
Northern Iowa 11-7 17-12
Creighton 8-10 11-18
Bradley 7-11 11-18
Drake 5-13 10-18
Wichita St. 4-14 9-19
Missouri State 3-15 7-20


When the Valley experts pick you second and you finish ninth, then the answer to "How long should the current coaching staff be given to prove themselves?" is Not very long.

On the other hand, the only reason that we were picked second was because of her players and the season they had the year before. I certainly agree that Jane is on the hot seat, but I still am in the one more year camp.

[ShockTalk]

Thanks TMH. Sounds like Kerr could be an immediate impact type player. Does anyone have info on how they have done this season?

[The Mad Hatter]

Thanks TMH. Sounds like Kerr could be an immediate impact type player. Does anyone have info on how they have done this season?

If I recall correctly, I think Jane thinks that DeGarmo can play immediately as well. Smith has talent, but it will probably take her a year or two to be an impact player.

Sorry, I don't have any info about what they have done this year. I could probably find something if I poked around. I'll post anything if I get around to it.

[1972Shocker]

I would love to believe that the incoming freshman will make a big difference next year, but if history is any guide that probably isn't going to happen.

While it sounds like a nice recruiting class on paper, so did the Rice, Frazier, Sudbeck and Vathauer recruiting class who will be Juniors next year. As did the upcoming Senior class of Stephens, Steven, Kinder and Bunton. These are the players, together with Hoyt, that we need to step up next year.

Breezy Martin sounded like a decent recruit on paper. I think she figured out pretty quickly that she was in over her head in D-1 basketball or maybe she was just homesick, but she didn't show much the few chances she had to play before she left.

Anything we get from the incoming freshmen will be gravy, but unless the returning core of players improve I just don't think it will matter that much.

[ShockTalk]

I agree 1972 on not relying on freshmen. However, some are reaching for reasons why a change in command should not happen right now. If this new class is no different from her previous ones, then we have our answer. On the other hand, if this looked to be her best class or have a player or two who, more likely than not, could help immediately, maybe the coach deserves one more year. My gut says no and its time to move on.

[1972Shocker]

Very diifficult to evaluate most recruits until you get them in-house and even then you may not know for sure what you have until you see how they perform in games.

I think this is even more of the case in women's basketball, because the step up from high school ball to D-1 basketball is probably a bigger step for the women than it is for the men at the present time.

If this was men's basketball she probably would be gone for sure, because of its importance financially you just cannot be as patient as you might be able with the Women's program. That may prove to be the saving grace for Jane.

It may all boil down to how the team plays in the MVC Tournament. A poor showing Thursday night against Drake may seal her fate. Defeat Drake, which I think will be tough in Des Moines, and play a decent quarter-final game and you might have something to hang your hat on.
Win 2 or more games in the Tournament then the decision gets much tougher for Mr. Schaus.