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Joe Cremo 6'4 G Grad Transfer to Villanova

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  • #31
    Write it down now. We will be dancing next year.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Shockm View Post
      Well to the nay sayers who think that Marshall can’t do it. We’ve trusted Marshall before. Sure we have questions, but I have not seen the good reasons to doubt him now.
      I don't think it is so much "doubting Marshall" as it is healthy skepticism. In all honesty, there is not a lot of experience returning. The two guys the 2019 squad will lean on kind of wilted down the stretch and were pretty much out-classed versus the stiffer competition. I believe in what 3G can do as a coach. I believe he will get this team back on track soon. I just don't see enough on next year's team to believe it will be next year. Depending what 3G can find at the guard position down the home stretch, 2020 could very well start another run. Then again, if he's getting 4/5 star talent, it may be next year. I just don't think there is enough on the roster to make that success probable.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by GreatWhiteBuffalo View Post
        Do you guys think a graduate transfer is really in the works for this season given the Shocks will likely struggle and not be a threat to make a deep tourney run? I can understand WSU being a great draw for a young guy who can start from day one, but I tend to think the older guys will look elsewhere. Maybe I'm wrong. My wife says I've been wrong before...
        They call it recruiting. It appears we are trying to be in the mix. We have some pretty good recruiters on our staff and we actually win some of these battles.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Shockm View Post

          They call it recruiting. It appears we are trying to be in the mix. We have some pretty good recruiters on our staff and we actually win some of these battles.
          Thanks for the dismissive reply.

          I am well aware that recruiting is a thing and that Wichita State actually has players that select the program and institution, even when there are efforts from other schools to obtain said player's services.

          This case is not necessarily that. It is a perception issue on the part of the recruit in question. If I'm a grad transfer, I'm looking to land where I think I can get the most exposure and have a chance at some kind of a title. On it's face, WSU is that program due to recent successes. When all things are considered, especially losing 6 seniors and an AA PG, this may not be the case.

          The Cremo kid may very well decide to take a chance and feel like he's the one player WSU is missing to make that run. If that is his view, then more power to him.

          Comment


          • Stickboy46
            Stickboy46 commented
            Editing a comment
            Well according to Vegas we have the 14th best odds to win the title next year .... soooo ....

          • GreatWhiteBuffalo
            GreatWhiteBuffalo commented
            Editing a comment
            Was that before Shamet left? Vegas is usually right...except for the 14 points they got against Marshall. Listen, I'm not saying they absolutely will not win. I'm saying it is doubtful because the odds look really long right now.

        • #35
          I was not being dismissive. You have a pessimistic view of next year. I have a hunch that Gregg Marshall envisions that we can make the tourney and will sell his vision to others. We need a point guard or two. No doubt. While inexperienced, we do have talented pieces and our league is not without question marks. That would be the opposing view to yours. By the way, your view is not without merit but neither is Marshall's.

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          • #36
            Realistic is the word, not pessimistic.

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            • WSUwatcher
              WSUwatcher commented
              Editing a comment
              KC Shox, channeling through pin...

          • #37
            Originally posted by pinstripers View Post
            Realistic is the word, not pessimistic.
            As I said, your viewpoint isn't without merit, but you don't have the only one. Who knows, maybe Gregg's viewpoint is realistic. I have faith in Gregg and while I'm reading into it what he is selling, I would bet my house on his having a more optimistic opinion than you do.

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            • #38
              I believe Coach knows exactly what our situation is. If he doesn't, he should not be coach. BTW, I mailed my SASO donation yesterday.

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              • #39
                Counting on a bunch of Fr to take a team to the tourney is a formula for great disappointment.

                Counting on a bunch of Fr to sweep Tulsa is also a formula for disappointment.

                In a league filled with very good coaches, Marshall's coaching abilities aren't the big advantage over opponents that they were in the Valley.

                We tied for second in the American with 2 first-team all-conference players. Next year we have zero candidates for that and it's not likely we have candidates for anything much past honorable mention. You might expect some drop off, and dropping off just a few games would put us around 5th or 6th in the conference. That's NIT territory.

                The league office might be justified in putting the Shox into that bottom group of 4 that only plays the top teams once so the top teams don't get their rpi destroyed.
                The future's so bright - I gotta wear shades.
                We like to cut down nets and get sized for championship rings.

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                • Shockm
                  Shockm commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Maybe our coach is delusional and meant to be disappointed. Are you saying that Gregg doesn't think it will happen?

                  Personally, because of Gregg's success, and because he's rebuilt before, I give him a 50/50 chance. With playing time, CJ, and Rod may be real good sooner than we think. They physically have the tools. MM and Austin are pretty good. The league loses a lot of players too.
                  He
                  I won't count Gregg out even if you will. I give him an even chance. I won't count out the NIT though

                • BOBB
                  BOBB commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I was on board until the rpi killer comment. High-Pur-Bowlie.

                  The bad news is we will be forced to play a lot of Freshmen. The good news is that we will be forced to play a lot of Freshmen. If we don't win 20 games and finish outside of the top six in the league I will be surprised. That is NIT territory.

                  I wasn't enamored with our coaching this year, but I saw this movie before and it ends well.

                • 1972Shocker
                  1972Shocker commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I agree with BOBB. Reasonable take until your last comment. WSU will not be in the bottom group. Keep in mind that WSU is not the only AAC team facing some questions and facing some rebuilding.

                  With such a young team there weill no doubt be growing pains. We should be significantly better by year end than we will be early in the season. If the AAC proves to be down some next year perhaps that opens a window to getting to the NCAA by winning the auto-bid.

                  Watching a young team develop and grow can be frustrating at times but is can also be entertaining even if you miss the dance one year.

                  Of course, we really don't even know what our roster will look like yet and things could still look much better depending on who we add although we for sure won't be replacing the combined 24 years of D-1 experience plus a few redshirt years with comparable experience. Just learning Marshall's sytem, develping roles and developing team chemistry will take a while for next year's team.

                  Could 3G work some magic and some of the newcomers surprise on the udpside, Sure that could happen. Seems more likely to me though that this team will have some growing pains and challenges.

                  I am actually looking forward to next season and watching this team develop. Longer term I think we have a lot to be excited about.
                  Last edited by 1972Shocker; April 3, 2018, 03:01 PM.

              • #40
                The good thing about having an inexperienced team is they don't know what they're not capable of. They also know they're not very good, so they listen to their coaches and work really hard to do the little things right.

                The '12/'13 team had a PG who played absolutely no minutes for us before that year, a RS freshman former walk on SG nobody had heard of, a sophomore 3, a former JUCO at the four with an entire year's experience, and a 5 with hands of stone and absolutely no offensive game.

                I'm not going to guess the '18/'19 team's postseason prospects until I see them play a few games.
                "It's amazing to watch Ron slide into that open area, Fred will find him and it's straight cash homie."--HCGM

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                • #41
                  We'll be alright if we can limit the amount of time-out plays we have to draw up.

                  Comment


                  • #42
                    Just FYI: Sportsbooks think Shockers have best chance to make the tournament next year from the AAC -- AND WIN THE NATTY. Never underestimate the power of perception, which I would extend to college transfers.

                    “The rebellion on the populist right against the results of the 2020 election was partly a cynical, knowing effort by political operators and their hype men in the media to steal an election or at least get rich trying. But it was also the tragic consequence of the informational malnourishment so badly afflicting the nation. ... Americans gorge themselves daily on empty informational calories, indulging their sugar fixes of self-affirming half-truths and even outright lies.'

                    ― Chris Stirewalt

                    Comment


                    • IndianaShocker
                      IndianaShocker commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Wow! I just checked online @ 5dimes, they list us at 50/1. We're tied with 5 other teams as the 14th most likely to win it all. In the grand scheme it doesn't mean a whole lot other than they believe we have the tools to be a S16 level team. One thing it certainly is not is "an oops we didn't realize all those seniors graduated", or "oops we forgot shamet declared". Vegas is absolutely plugged in and check all available boxes before putting these lines out.

                      2018-19 Is going to be a fun year!

                    • proshox
                      proshox commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Or they believe it easy $$$

                  • #43
                    Originally posted by Rocky Mountain Shock View Post
                    The good thing about having an inexperienced team is they don't know what they're not capable of. They also know they're not very good, so they listen to their coaches and work really hard to do the little things right.

                    The '12/'13 team had a PG who played absolutely no minutes for us before that year, a RS freshman former walk on SG nobody had heard of, a sophomore 3, a former JUCO at the four with an entire year's experience, and a 5 with hands of stone and absolutely no offensive game.

                    I'm not going to guess the '18/'19 team's postseason prospects until I see them play a few games.
                    This greatly underplays what we knew we had coming into '12-'13.

                    That PG who had played absolutely no minutes for us before that year was a known solid PG who played at the highest level of D-I ball at Oregon and as a RS, practiced and learned Marshall's system with the team. It didn't hurt that we had freshman PG also coming in that had everyone here excited as the future of success for WSU basketball (think of Lomax, who we no longer have) and that he could learn under Armstead. Even if we land someone like Akinjo, he won't have the experience of an Armstead nor the ability to grow under a senior PG.

                    While we may not have known the true potential of the RS freshman SG, he, too, got a full year of practice and learning the Marshall system, and by the end of that RS season, the coaches knew what they had.

                    That sophomore played in all but one game his freshman year (at much surprise to most of us when he was recruited and signed), played almost as many minutes as SHJ and CJ combined, was a known quality defender by that time who had only 4 fewer steals than our top steals guy this year in less than 1/3 the minutes.

                    That former JUCO had already shown he was a strong offensive and defensive rebounder, who could block shots, and had a FG% of .572 in that 1 year.

                    I'll agree with every thing you said about EO, but he was a known rim protector with 30 blocks in under 250 minutes played.

                    You left out that we had a senior guard who, as a junior, managed to play over 800 minutes in that talent crowded '11-'12 roster.

                    We may be surprised (I hope), but do we have any new player for next year that we believe will do what we thought he could do (and did) as Early in his first year?

                    I'm still not buying that the '18-'19 compares to the '12-'13 team as far as what we, and the coaches, thought and knew, at the beginning of the season as far as experience and number of players with that experience. Not even that close.

                    Comment


                    • proshox
                      proshox commented
                      Editing a comment
                      The floor of the final four team was much higher than this team. We knew Armstead, Hall, Williams and Orupke could play.

                      The coaching staff was also way more effusive about Ron Baker from his time as a redshirt than they are about Rod. Cleanthony was an expected difference maker... Fred was our highest rated recruit in years...

                      Next year’s squad looks like a bunch of dudes who will be good in two to three years.

                    • 1972Shocker
                      1972Shocker commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Top notch analysis. Another difference was the makeup of the Coaching staff. Marshall, Jans (Associatde HC) and Heiar in 2012-13. Not sure if that is signficant but based on discussions on this board this past year at least some observers are convinced it is.

                  • #44
                    Originally posted by ShockTalk View Post

                    This greatly underplays what we knew we had coming into '12-'13.

                    That PG who had played absolutely no minutes for us before that year was a known solid PG who played at the highest level of D-I ball at Oregon and as a RS, practiced and learned Marshall's system with the team. It didn't hurt that we had freshman PG also coming in that had everyone here excited as the future of success for WSU basketball (think of Lomax, who we no longer have) and that he could learn under Armstead. Even if we land someone like Akinjo, he won't have the experience of an Armstead nor the ability to grow under a senior PG.

                    While we may not have known the true potential of the RS freshman SG, he, too, got a full year of practice and learning the Marshall system, and by the end of that RS season, the coaches knew what they had.

                    That sophomore played in all but one game his freshman year (at much surprise to most of us when he was recruited and signed), played almost as many minutes as SHJ and CJ combined, was a known quality defender by that time who had only 4 fewer steals than our top steals guy this year in less than 1/3 the minutes.

                    That former JUCO had already shown he was a strong offensive and defensive rebounder, who could block shots, and had a FG% of .572 in that 1 year.

                    I'll agree with every thing you said about EO, but he was a known rim protector with 30 blocks in under 250 minutes played.

                    You left out that we had a senior guard who, as a junior, managed to play over 800 minutes in that talent crowded '11-'12 roster.

                    We may be surprised (I hope), but do we have any new player for next year that we believe will do what we thought he could do (and did) as Early in his first year?

                    I'm still not buying that the '18-'19 compares to the '12-'13 team as far as what we, and the coaches, thought and knew, at the beginning of the season as far as experience and number of players with that experience. Not even that close.
                    Solid analysis, so thank you ShockTalk . But I think my point was missed: Hindsight is 20/20.

                    We had no idea how well Armstead really knew HCGM's system, just that he had opportunity to learn it.

                    Same deal with Baker. CJ has had plenty of opportunity and practice, but he's on his way out. In retrospect, we know Baker's BBIQ was off the charts. We (average fans) didn't know that in April 2012.

                    Hall was Hall. We all knew he was good. He was a known quantity, but he only had a year of experience. Some of us are complaining about guys on this team who have just as much, if not more, and some have better (albeit different) stats.

                    Sure, we had a senior guard on that team. We also have a senior SF/PF on next year's team who had an underwhelming junior season thanks to injury. I think he's going to pissed and motivated next year.

                    If you thought my point was to piss on the 2013 FF team, it wasn't. My point was we had all kinds of reasons to be very pessimistic about that team--and I'm sure many of us were. We can cherry pick stats until we're blue in the face. But let's see next year's team lace 'em up in a few games before we lose hope.
                    "It's amazing to watch Ron slide into that open area, Fred will find him and it's straight cash homie."--HCGM

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                    • proshox
                      proshox commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Come on - We watched enough of Baker in high school video to know his IQ and athleticism was going to translate! I am not kidding

                  • #45
                    I keep hearing jucos and grad transfers... But I think getting a transfer that sits a year would be ideal as well

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