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  • Originally posted by C0|dB|00ded View Post

    No, you were/are just wrong. We are not suffering from "regional issues" and we are not in a "good position".

    I made a claim, you refuted it, I brought data, now we are all on the same page (I hope).

    Wichita is manufacturing-centric, manufacturing labor in America has suffered starting in the 90's due to globalization. Wichita failed to aggressively diversify their job market like surrounding cities when the writing was on the wall. They CONTINUE to fail.
    You said other midwestern towns and then proceeded to list mostly southern ones. I previously stated southern cities are growing while many midwestern towns are not, and many are expected to start declining in the near future. Wichita is not one of those.

    I also never said Wichita is doing everything right and is in great shape. I did say it's in a good position if it would make a ****ing effort. But too many people like yourself only see the negatives and think it's hopeless. Wichita lacks leadership and vision. That's the only thing holding it back. The State doesn't help with its love of taxing just about anything and everything it can, which isn't going to attract a lot of new business, especially when Oklahoma and Texas offer much friendlier business conditions. Wichita State is, or could be, in a great position to help with growth and educating people in growing fields that pay well, but the business conditions of the area, both the fault of local government and the State, makes that a more difficult task.

    But it really wouldn't take much to change things and allow Wichita to see much better growth. I'm not saying Wichita will ever be a destination city, but it does very little to attract people to visit or permanently move here, and yet it's still doing decently well all things considered and is in a good place to make things happen with better leadership and vision. And a little backbone as well.
    Infinity Art Glass - Fantastic local artist and Shocker fan
    RIP Guy Always A Shocker
    Downsizing Government - Part of the Cato Institute
    Carpenter Place - A blessing to many young girls/women
    Cato Institute - A libertarian take on the issues
    ICT S.O.S - Great local cause fighting against human trafficking
    Wartick Insurance Agency - Saved me money with more coverage.
    MVCFans Alternative, Where ALL Voices Can Be Heard - Come join the party

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    • Originally posted by SubGod22 View Post

      You said other midwestern towns and then proceeded to list mostly southern ones. I previously stated southern cities are growing while many midwestern towns are not, and many are expected to start declining in the near future. Wichita is not one of those.

      I also never said Wichita is doing everything right and is in great shape. I did say it's in a good position if it would make a ****ing effort. But too many people like yourself only see the negatives and think it's hopeless. Wichita lacks leadership and vision. That's the only thing holding it back. The State doesn't help with its love of taxing just about anything and everything it can, which isn't going to attract a lot of new business, especially when Oklahoma and Texas offer much friendlier business conditions. Wichita State is, or could be, in a great position to help with growth and educating people in growing fields that pay well, but the business conditions of the area, both the fault of local government and the State, makes that a more difficult task.

      But it really wouldn't take much to change things and allow Wichita to see much better growth. I'm not saying Wichita will ever be a destination city, but it does very little to attract people to visit or permanently move here, and yet it's still doing decently well all things considered and is in a good place to make things happen with better leadership and vision. And a little backbone as well.
      A gave Wichita a big effort. I'm part of the reason we have a downtown arena. I shook poor ol' George Fahnestock's hand on election night with tears (of joy) streaming down his face.

      Calling Oklahoma "The South" is absolutely hilarious, regardless if it has anything to do with my original statement. I simply collected all the mid-sized cities surrounding Wichita and gave you the data indicating that they are leaving us in the dust. I didn't include Denver or K.C. (at first) because they are in a different league. Denver of course is growing INCREDIBLY fast (+78% since '90). But for large cities (2M+) to be growing faster than a roomy, mid-size town like ours is doubly embarrassing.

      Comment


      • Ok Cold, Wichita has arrived... we're getting a Fatburger...

        Breaking news, Wichita Business Journal

        "Fatburger, a popular burger joint from Los Angeles, appears to have its first of three Wichita locations lined up.

        An application filed earlier this month with the Metropolitan Area Building and Construction Department indicates that Fatburger is planning to open in a building shell at 2562 N. Greenwich Road, which is an address within the Wichita Crossing shopping and dining center at the southeast corner of Greenwich Road and K-96."





        "You Just Want to Slap The #### Outta Some People"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by SubGod22 View Post

          You said other midwestern towns and then proceeded to list mostly southern ones. I previously stated southern cities are growing while many midwestern towns are not, and many are expected to start declining in the near future. Wichita is not one of those.

          I also never said Wichita is doing everything right and is in great shape. I did say it's in a good position if it would make a ****ing effort. But too many people like yourself only see the negatives and think it's hopeless. Wichita lacks leadership and vision. That's the only thing holding it back. The State doesn't help with its love of taxing just about anything and everything it can, which isn't going to attract a lot of new business, especially when Oklahoma and Texas offer much friendlier business conditions. Wichita State is, or could be, in a great position to help with growth and educating people in growing fields that pay well, but the business conditions of the area, both the fault of local government and the State, makes that a more difficult task.

          But it really wouldn't take much to change things and allow Wichita to see much better growth. I'm not saying Wichita will ever be a destination city, but it does very little to attract people to visit or permanently move here, and yet it's still doing decently well all things considered and is in a good place to make things happen with better leadership and vision. And a little backbone as well.
          A four lane east west highway across the southern part of the state would be an unsung plus. Of course that should’ve been built 40 years ago.
          Last edited by shoxlax; 3 weeks ago.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by SubGod22 View Post
            Oklahoma also has a better tax rate for businesses which doesn't hurt. I worked for a Wichita based company a while back whose official HQ was in OKC because of that. The Wichita location was about five times larger though when it came to employment.
            Business income tax is a HUGE misconception as it relates to the attractiveness of a state. A business is not taxed on where its HQ is. State taxation is determined by "nexus," which itself is defined in different ways by different states, but basically nexus is a business presence in a state. Many states determine nexus by sales originated in that state, others by a combination of sales, employees, and physical property. So wherever a company "does business", it has to pay income taxes in that state (unless, of course, it does not have a state business income tax, but most do).

            That your company had its headquarters in OKC probably didn't have much impact on their state tax burden, especially if most of its sales (or its employees) were still sourced to KS.
            "It's amazing to watch Ron slide into that open area, Fred will find him and it's straight cash homie."--HCGM

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            • Originally posted by shoxlax View Post

              A four lane east west highway across the southern part of the state would be an unsung plus. Of course that should’ve been built 40 years ago.
              What's wrong with 400?

              "You Just Want to Slap The #### Outta Some People"

              Comment


              • I was born and raised in Wichita, lived there 29 years, and I've been gone now for 14 years. I moved to a state that is certainly not high on the "business friendly" list but is experiencing explosive growth. My observations while being here in CO certainly aren't flawless, but I think they're valuable.

                Sure, Wichita is "growing." But its growth rate is small. It's losing ground to other cities, and consequently it's losing political clout within the state and the country, and losing its ability to compete with other metro areas. Population growth is like inflation, you have to grow faster than average or you're losing ground.

                I haven't figured out why, but Wichita seems infatuated with improving the business climate when that's not its biggest problem. It's not like Nebraska, Oklahoma, Missouri, Colorado and (for God's sakes) Arkansas are significantly more business-friendly, yet cities that were once Wichita's peers in those states have significantly higher growth rates. The Kansas side of KC has seen significantly higher growth than Wichita, so Kansas sure as hell isn't holding back Overland Park. And the city of Wichita hasn't raised its property tax mill level since the Reagan Administration, so this narrative about the city's high taxes is a bunch of BS. On the economic front, what it's not doing is finding and nurturing the job drivers of the future. The city experienced huge growth in the middle of the 20th century thanks to aviation. But those days are over. It's time to find the jobs that will define Wichita in the future.

                But what's holding Wichita back the most is the small-mindedness of its people. That is a glaring fact from 600 miles away, but it's hard to see when you're there and in it every day. Wichita is afraid of its own shadow. Afraid to take risks, afraid to invest in itself, afraid to spend more than $10 bucks on anything that might improve its situation. Of course there are exceptions to this--IBA, the new baseball stadium, Kellogg improvements--but that stuff isn't enough.

                To be a place people want to live in the 21st century, you have to offer them a good quality of life. No one moves here to Colorado because taxes are low. We're not known as a "low tax" state and our housing prices are out of control. But we can't beat people away with a stick (though some grumpy natives try). Wichita may not have mountains and ski resorts, but it doesn't need that. Wichita needs to offer people opportunities to enjoy their lives outside of work. It needs to be attractive to visitors (ie potential new residents), it needs to have a fun vibe and some energy. Being a "nice place to raise a family"--which is an exhaustingly tired cliche--isn't going to excite people and make them want to live there.
                "It's amazing to watch Ron slide into that open area, Fred will find him and it's straight cash homie."--HCGM

                Comment


                • Colorado is a lower tax state than Kansas, FWIW. 2021-State-Business-Tax-Climate-Index1.pdf (taxfoundation.org)

                  State-Individual-Income-Tax-Rates-and-Brackets-for-2021..pdf (taxfoundation.org)

                  Colorado has a 4.55% flat corporate income tax. Kansas' top rate is 7%. Kansas ranks in the top ten in total state and local sales tax.

                  Rocky Mountain Shock, I hear what you are saying but there is very little data that people move for "quality of life" - of course "quality of life" means different things to different people.

                  People generally move for economic opportunity and the quality of life follows that.

                  And in my view the "quality of life" in Wichita has expanded a ton in the last 20 years. A TON.

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                  • I’ve lived about an hour outside of Wichita my whole life, the pool of people I’ve known that wanted to move closer to the city for whatever reason has always been surprisingly low. It also seems like the surrounding communities don’t expect much out of Wichita. They know if they are looking for a product they can most likely find it there, but there never has been a major call for Wichita to do something special with downtown or start up a WSU football team or bring in a professional sports team. It is a little strange now that I think about it

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by bleed yellow View Post
                      I’ve lived about an hour outside of Wichita my whole life, the pool of people I’ve known that wanted to move closer to the city for whatever reason has always been surprisingly low. It also seems like the surrounding communities don’t expect much out of Wichita. They know if they are looking for a product they can most likely find it there, but there never has been a major call for Wichita to do something special with downtown or start up a WSU football team or bring in a professional sports team. It is a little strange now that I think about it
                      Old fogies usually won't be the ones to move into Wichita. It's the kids from surrounding communities who may have asperations of not staying in their bedroom communities. While driving through Wichita during the day, I often see cars from surrounding communities (including counties on the east side who are driving on the west side, and west side counties driving on the east side) who are driving there also. They must have some type of business in Wichita, that warrants a thriving city. However, that doesn't mean they are wanting or planning to move there.

                      I have no idea though, how the new downtown apartments, including Delano are doing and whether they are being occupied or not. I know there are a lot of new buildings, and high level (amenities) apartments in those areas. Delano also has some new restaurants, and the Eagle reported that real estate values are increasing in that area.

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                      • As depressing as basketball is right now, it'd be nice to be looking forward to spring football or what players might get drafted or picked up and given chances as UDFAs.
                        Infinity Art Glass - Fantastic local artist and Shocker fan
                        RIP Guy Always A Shocker
                        Downsizing Government - Part of the Cato Institute
                        Carpenter Place - A blessing to many young girls/women
                        Cato Institute - A libertarian take on the issues
                        ICT S.O.S - Great local cause fighting against human trafficking
                        Wartick Insurance Agency - Saved me money with more coverage.
                        MVCFans Alternative, Where ALL Voices Can Be Heard - Come join the party

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by SubGod22 View Post
                          As depressing as basketball is right now, it'd be nice to be looking forward to spring football or what players might get drafted or picked up and given chances as UDFAs.
                          I agree. It would be nice.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Shockm View Post

                            Old fogies usually won't be the ones to move into Wichita. It's the kids from surrounding communities who may have asperations of not staying in their bedroom communities. While driving through Wichita during the day, I often see cars from surrounding communities (including counties on the east side who are driving on the west side, and west side counties driving on the east side) who are driving there also. They must have some type of business in Wichita, that warrants a thriving city. However, that doesn't mean they are wanting or planning to move there.

                            I have no idea though, how the new downtown apartments, including Delano are doing and whether they are being occupied or not. I know there are a lot of new buildings, and high level (amenities) apartments in those areas. Delano also has some new restaurants, and the Eagle reported that real estate values are increasing in that area.
                            Having also grown up about an hour outside Wichita, I can attest to the younger people going to Wichita to work and raise a family. Many from my high school class did and I know several from my oldest son's class did too.

                            Also, Hutchinson has really been hurt by the relatively close proximity to Wichita shopping on the NW side. We've lost KMart, Sears (before both went virtually belly-up), Target, JC Penney and Dillards. Our Kohls is going downhill, as well. All we have left is WalMart. We have added a TJ Maxx and Dunham's Sporting Goods, but I don't know how long that will last. Yes, online shopping has played a factor, but not that big of a factor.

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