[POST GAME] WSU vs SD ST - What We Learned

[SFL]

I'm frustrated with the consistency of falling "just short" and of the uncertainty with the line-up as well as the inconsistency of play by all but Mr. Kyles. Such things are indicative of poor leadership and a lack strategic thinking.
Go Shocks!

Pretty easy to say from a 30,000 feet view huh? I am perplexed at the mass volume of posters in the past 15 hours or so. Some think the Shocks are intitled to win against a top-15 opponent (UConn/SDSU). Are you kidding me??? You don't think in the camps of UConn & SDSU, they aren't grinding to meet their expectations as well? They apparently have more talent than we do. Not much better, but apparently better at this point. Hey, I don't agree with every decision HCGM makes, but I also believe he is in a better position than you and me to think strategically and lead this group of 18-26 year-olds. Come on you are better than that...I hope. Get a grip...it's only the first week of December. Some of you are acting like bandwagon fans. Some questioned the Shockers were impatient and paniced last night. Look in the mirror people...you are doing the same thing. We aren't intitled to anything...we just have to work hard and smart, in addition to recognizing where we have to improve. Give this team a chance. Drinking to much koolaide gives your taste buds a false taste of security.

:wsu_posters:

So, we agree to disagree. You should 'DIG' deeper into the meaning of my post...

Go Shocks!!!!

Okedokey!

[DUShock]

I'm frustrated with the consistency of falling "just short" and of the uncertainty with the line-up as well as the inconsistency of play by all but Mr. Kyles. Such things are indicative of poor leadership and a lack strategic thinking.
Go Shocks!

Pretty easy to say from a 30,000 feet view huh? I am perplexed at the mass volume of posters in the past 15 hours or so. Some think the Shocks are intitled to win against a top-15 opponent (UConn/SDSU). Are you kidding me??? You don't think in the camps of UConn & SDSU, they aren't grinding to meet their expectations as well? They apparently have more talent than we do. Not much better, but apparently better at this point. Hey, I don't agree with every decision HCGM makes, but I also believe he is in a better position than you and me to think strategically and lead this group of 18-26 year-olds. Come on you are better than that...I hope. Get a grip...it's only the first week of December. Some of you are acting like bandwagon fans. Some questioned the Shockers were impatient and paniced last night. Look in the mirror people...you are doing the same thing. We aren't intitled to anything...we just have to work hard and smart, in addition to recognizing where we have to improve. Give this team a chance. Drinking to much koolaide gives your taste buds a false taste of security.

:wsu_posters:

So, we agree to disagree. You should 'DIG' deeper into the meaning of my post...

Go Shocks!!!!

Okedokey!

Thank you for "filling" that in for me. :good:

Go Shocks!!!!

[SHOXAAC]

I'm frustrated with the consistency of falling "just short" and of the uncertainty with the line-up as well as the inconsistency of play by all but Mr. Kyles. Such things are indicative of poor leadership and a lack strategic thinking.
Go Shocks!

Pretty easy to say from a 30,000 feet view huh? I am perplexed at the mass volume of posters in the past 15 hours or so. Some think the Shocks are intitled to win against a top-15 opponent (UConn/SDSU). Are you kidding me??? You don't think in the camps of UConn & SDSU, they aren't grinding to meet their expectations as well? They apparently have more talent than we do. Not much better, but apparently better at this point. Hey, I don't agree with every decision HCGM makes, but I also believe he is in a better position than you and me to think strategically and lead this group of 18-26 year-olds. Come on you are better than that...I hope. Get a grip...it's only the first week of December. Some of you are acting like bandwagon fans. Some questioned the Shockers were impatient and paniced last night. Look in the mirror people...you are doing the same thing. We aren't intitled to anything...we just have to work hard and smart, in addition to recognizing where we have to improve. Give this team a chance. Drinking to much koolaide gives your taste buds a false taste of security.

:wsu_posters:

So, we agree to disagree. You should 'DIG' deeper into the meaning of my post...

Go Shocks!!!!

Okedokey!

That's actually me...can I stop digging now...my arms are really tired.

:wsu_posters: :goshocks: :posterwu: :posterwsu:

[GarH]

re Stutz

Aargh made a statement about Stutz that I think is 100% on the mark.


"Stutz seems to have lost all his confidence by practicing against a quick and athletic guy his own size. "

Watching Stutz this year, I've had the exact same thought. Besides the athleticism EO can play very physical in practice (without the worry of fouling out). I think between the athleticism and the extra physical play, Stutz at least temporarily has lost some of his confidence. If he has the right attitude, and I believe he does, will improve from going up against EO in practice.

What I'm saying is I wouldn't give up on Stutz. I think he will still be a good player for us.

[Snapshot9]

Re: re Stutz

Aargh made a statement about Stutz that I think is 100% on the mark.


"Stutz seems to have lost all his confidence by practicing against a quick and athletic guy his own size. "

Watching Stutz this year, I've had the exact same thought. Besides the athleticism EO can play very physical in practice (without the worry of fouling out). I think between the athleticism and the extra physical play, Stutz at least temporarily has lost some of his confidence. If he has the right attitude, and I believe he does, will improve from going up against EO in practice.

What I'm saying is I wouldn't give up on Stutz. I think he will still be a good player for us.

Yes, if:

1) He learns to defend better - block shots.
2) He is quicker inside on Offense.
3) And learns to get off his feet and actually jump.

[wufan]

Stutz isn't a huge help to us right now, but neither was Paul Miller in hist junior year...

[RoyalShock]

Stutz isn't a huge help to us right now, but neither was Paul Miller in hist junior year...

11 ppg and 5 rpg wasn't helpful? He was our #3 scorer and #2 rebounder. That's like saying Toure Murry isn't helpful to us this year.

[Ashockalypse]

It may be unfortunate but Stutz is starting out slow. This happens to a lot of college players in Nov. & Dec. We need him before then but I fully expect him to have his legs under him and contributing by the time the league startts.

[shockall]

It may be unfortunate but Stutz is starting out slow. This happens to a lot of college players in Nov. & Dec.

Can't think of any good basketball centers that fit this category.... Can you list a few?

[ShockRef]

It may be unfortunate but Stutz is starting out slow. This happens to a lot of college players in Nov. & Dec. We need him before then but I fully expect him to have his legs under him and contributing by the time the league startts.

Just curious...

Why would a player "start out slow"at the beginning of basketball season?

If he is a JuCo transfer and learning the system, I can understand.

If he is a Freshmen and adjusting to a whole new world, I can understand that too.

But a 3rd year player who has been in the system and played significant minutes?

I call BS.

That is all. 8)

[wufan]

Stutz isn't a huge help to us right now, but neither was Paul Miller in hist junior year...

11 ppg and 5 rpg wasn't helpful? He was our #3 scorer and #2 rebounder. That's like saying Toure Murry isn't helpful to us this year.

I was referring more to the perception of Paul Miller as fifi in his junior campaign and Stutz being soft this year. If you project Stutz's numbers out for 23 minutes per game that Paul averaged that year, Garrett is in the 8 and 6 range. Not as good statistically as Miller, but not bad either. Now, if Stutz was averaging 11 and 5 in 23 minutes this year do you think that he would have any less criticism? I don't. I was merely making the comparison between Miller and Stutz both being soft in their junior year. As a senior Miller was POY. We'll see what Stutz does in the last 50+ games of his career.

[pie n eye]

I was at the game and have been trying to read through all of the comments. Here are a few of my thoughts (for what they are worth):

1) Rebounding: From the post position, Blaire is our best rebounder. He has the mass to hold his position, athleticism to get to the ball, and is not afraid of the contact. Stutz has been playing too soft, Durley simply doesn't seem interested in defense or rebounds (maybe he is afraid of picking up fouls, if you are on the bench with fouls, you cannot score), and Ellis simply has to expend too much energy to maintain position given his weight. On the offensive end, Stutz and Durley spend too much time roaming the 3 point line to be effective offensive rebounders. Ellis spends most of his offensive time setting perimeter screens and is also out of offensive rebounding position.

2) 3 Point Shooting: We shoot too many. I don't think 3 pointers should be the main course, important to the game, but not the primary weapon. Our perimeter players are better at making them this year, but continually settling for 3's is why we shoot way fewer free throws than our opponents. We need post offense, so Stutz and Durley need to stay off the 3 point line and play with their back to the basket. Can Stutz and Durley shoot and make them? Sure they can, but if I were given the choice of them shooitng 3's without people in position to rebound or having our perimeter players shoot them with rebounders, well...

3) Ball Handling: We seemed frantic with the ball and the second half melt down exposed us. Unless you have a spectacular ball handler, passing is the best way to beat a press. In my opinion, our ball handling is far from spectacular, so we should be working on good spacing, getting open, and passing the ball up the floor rather than the dribbe attack.

4) Dribble penetration: We give up dribble penetration too much. This has been a problem year after year. Coach needs to figure this out and make adjustments. My thought would be to make the opponent prove that they capable of lighting up the 3 before we guard it so closely that we invite dribble penetration.5) Time outs: This has been a bone of contention in the discussions. The first timeout called was by the inbounder (Toure'?) to prevent a 5 second call, not Coach. Marshall is notorious for holding the time outs. Yes, having time outs at the end of a close game is valuable, but if the wheels are coming off, start calling them. If you don't, you're likely on the losing end of a blowout with a bunch of timeouts in the bank. Use them to stem the tide and help the guys regroup.

6) Fouls: The team fouls alot. My understanding (and I think someone else commented on this) is that not many fouls are called in practice. News flash, guys usually play like they practice. If they are allowed to pound one another in practice, they are probably going to do it in the game. This gives the other team unguarded scoring opportunities with the clock stopped and, maybe more importantly, really shortens the bench forcing lineups that may not be the most productive.

Just some of my thoughts, so have at it...

Great post, I went through and bolded the parts I especially agree w/, but the whole thing is on the mark.

In fact there are a lot of great posts in this thread and on this forum. So many that it is impossible to acknoweldge them all sometimes. I know it's been said before but Shockernet really needs a like button. Powers that be, what are the chances of us getting a like and dislike button for posts? I know nothing of the behind the scenes work required to make such a change to a forum, but know it would be a great addition.

Sorry to get off topic there, but the current overall discussion of the team and the related good/bad/and wtf posts made me realize how great this feature would be.

[WstateU]

I was at the game and have been trying to read through all of the comments. Here are a few of my thoughts (for what they are worth):

1) Rebounding: From the post position, Blaire is our best rebounder. He has the mass to hold his position, athleticism to get to the ball, and is not afraid of the contact. Stutz has been playing too soft, Durley simply doesn't seem interested in defense or rebounds (maybe he is afraid of picking up fouls, if you are on the bench with fouls, you cannot score), and Ellis simply has to expend too much energy to maintain position given his weight. On the offensive end, Stutz and Durley spend too much time roaming the 3 point line to be effective offensive rebounders. Ellis spends most of his offensive time setting perimeter screens and is also out of offensive rebounding position.

2) 3 Point Shooting: We shoot too many. I don't think 3 pointers should be the main course, important to the game, but not the primary weapon. Our perimeter players are better at making them this year, but continually settling for 3's is why we shoot way fewer free throws than our opponents. We need post offense, so Stutz and Durley need to stay off the 3 point line and play with their back to the basket. Can Stutz and Durley shoot and make them? Sure they can, but if I were given the choice of them shooitng 3's without people in position to rebound or having our perimeter players shoot them with rebounders, well...

3) Ball Handling: We seemed frantic with the ball and the second half melt down exposed us. Unless you have a spectacular ball handler, passing is the best way to beat a press. In my opinion, our ball handling is far from spectacular, so we should be working on good spacing, getting open, and passing the ball up the floor rather than the dribbe attack.

4) Dribble penetration: We give up dribble penetration too much. This has been a problem year after year. Coach needs to figure this out and make adjustments. My thought would be to make the opponent prove that they capable of lighting up the 3 before we guard it so closely that we invite dribble penetration.5) Time outs: This has been a bone of contention in the discussions. The first timeout called was by the inbounder (Toure'?) to prevent a 5 second call, not Coach. Marshall is notorious for holding the time outs. Yes, having time outs at the end of a close game is valuable, but if the wheels are coming off, start calling them. If you don't, you're likely on the losing end of a blowout with a bunch of timeouts in the bank. Use them to stem the tide and help the guys regroup.

6) Fouls: The team fouls alot. My understanding (and I think someone else commented on this) is that not many fouls are called in practice. News flash, guys usually play like they practice. If they are allowed to pound one another in practice, they are probably going to do it in the game. This gives the other team unguarded scoring opportunities with the clock stopped and, maybe more importantly, really shortens the bench forcing lineups that may not be the most productive.

Just some of my thoughts, so have at it...

Great post, I went through and bolded the parts I especially agree w/, but the whole thing is on the mark.

In fact there are a lot of great posts in this thread and on this forum. So many that it is impossible to acknoweldge them all sometimes. I know it's been said before but Shockernet really needs a like button. Powers that be, what are the chances of us getting a like and dislike button for posts? I know nothing of the behind the scenes work required to make such a change to a forum, but know it would be a great addition.

Sorry to get off topic there, but the current overall discussion of the team and the related good/bad/and #### posts made me realize how great this feature would be.

Here you go... :good: :good:

or... :D

[pie n eye]

That's all well and good in an obnoxious sort of way (dunno if I've ever mentioned how much I dislike emoticons and huge pictures on message boards...weird, i know).

Right now if I want to simply acknowledge someone for a well thought out post it requires copying the entire post or the entire post plus another persons post who responded to the original. Just trying to explain it is confusing and the process clutters the message board up w/ a bunch of old material over and over again. Yeah, if I want to respond to a specific post the best way is to quote the person and respond. But I just want to simply say, "thank you for posting something that didn't waste my time" then the like button is the simple way to go. Just a pipe dream, but if someone has the know how AND the elbow grease then it would be a cool addition.

[ShockBand]

I'll look into over break, but it is not something available in the stock setup of phpbb. There are some reputation mods available that achieve something similar to the "like" FB button, but adding mods is something I won't do until I have a few hours to sit and install and troubleshoot during a time when it is no big deal to take SN offline for a bit, if necessary.