Don't read if you are in a good mood about tonight's game

[JaminShock]

MTXE, you are sooooo right! Coaching staff gets a D this year. UNI pounded us in the lane and we refuse to go zone. It is totaly the coaches fault by not getting the team up for games. We lose to a sorry sCUm team, and Drake? cmon!!! It seems like they cant adjust to the game. Players look like they are too cool to play sometimes. I see other teams push as hard as they can and we are just walking around. By him starting Ellis tells enough about his coaching. Chalk the INDYST win for the fans because without the fans we would have lost by 20! on to evan

Where to begin... oh forget it, it's not worth it. I'll just say this: If you think the coaching staff gets a D for this year, you just flat-out aren't paying attention. HCGM will end up as the MVC coach of the year this year, and he'll deserve it 100%.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

MTXE, you are sooooo right! Coaching staff gets a D this year. UNI pounded us in the lane and we refuse to go zone. It is totaly the coaches fault by not getting the team up for games. We lose to a sorry sCUm team, and Drake? cmon!!! It seems like they cant adjust to the game. Players look like they are too cool to play sometimes. I see other teams push as hard as they can and we are just walking around. By him starting Ellis tells enough about his coaching. Chalk the INDYST win for the fans because without the fans we would have lost by 20! on to evan

Where to begin... oh forget it, it's not worth it. I'll just say this: If you think the coaching staff gets a D for this year, you just flat-out aren't paying attention. HCGM will end up as the MVC coach of the year this year, and he'll deserve it 100%.

just so its out in the open I think dude was being sarcastic.

[MTXE]

I haven't read the whole topic, only scanned over some of the posts, but I have a feeling I'm about to get lumped in with MTXE.

Anyway, last night as I watched us attempt to deal with the zone I had two observations: 1. The offensive system on the floor looked completely inept. It looked like the same offense we ran in middle school against a 1-3-1 zone. 2. Our players didn't seem to have any instinct on how to find open areas in the zone, either our post players or shooters.

You can't just run a guy baseline and have your post jog around the lane. You need to either find open areas on the perimeter and shoot them out of it or get the ball to the FT line, force the defense to collapse, then kick it out. I didn't see any of that. Whether that was due to coaching or the players, well, that's well above my pay grade.

What finally got things rolling was when ISU switched to man-to-man for a few positions, we got some scores and stop and suddenly the tide turned. McKenna probably thought a switch would put us back on our heels but we are good enough that it backfired.

In my opinion, we won because ISU went away from what was working and we took full advantage of it. So there is credit and blame to go all around, I think.

I'm just glad we got out of there with a win. I told my wife on the way there that I was concerned ISU would rally around their misfortunes and play with a purpose. Kudos to them for that.

"I haven't read the whole topic, only scanned over some of the posts, but I have a feeling I'm about to get lumped in with MTXE."

You don't want that to happen Royalshock. MTXE has already been condemned by our resident Instruction Manual Proofreader that he hasn't the ability to observe or understand a basketball game. Ha ha ha haaa :)

"Anyway, last night as I watched us attempt to deal with the zone I had two observations: 1. The offensive system on the floor looked completely inept. It looked like the same offense we ran in middle school against a 1-3-1 zone. 2. Our players didn't seem to have any instinct on how to find open areas in the zone, either our post players or shooters."

But Royalshock, you can't get the ball into the post in a zone. Our own resident coaching expert has already said it "would have resulted in about 20 turnovers in the first 24 possessions and WSU would not have had to come back from a 17-point deficit. It would have been 30+."

Indiana State had the game totally locked up with an unbeatable strategy. Perhaps it would be best that I just quote the expert's analysis lest I get anything wrong during an attempted paraphrase due to my lack of basketball knowledge: "Force WSU to hit 3's. They did an excellent job with their game plan and WSU couldn't hit enough 3's to force them out of it." -I.M.P. (Instruction Manual Proofreader)

"You can't just run a guy baseline and have your post jog around the lane. You need to either find open areas on the perimeter and shoot them out of it or get the ball to the FT line, force the defense to collapse, then kick it out. I didn't see any of that. Whether that was due to coaching or the players, well, that's well above my pay grade."

If you don't mind, I would like to provide a few of my own ideas on how to attack a zone. :) The first two things that you should do to beat a zone fit in perfectly with our team composition in regards to depth and athleticism:

1) We need to push the ball up the court in order to beat the defense up the floor and possibly make a play before the zone solidifies.

2) We should full-court press the entire game encouraging a transition-style tempo. Considering our depth relative to theirs, this would be a deadly blow after forty minutes of ball.

3) If their defense is already set up, we must be patient and make sure the people we want shooting (Clevin, Graham, Murry,) are doing the shooting. We don't need Aaron Ellis firing from 18ft.

4) You cannot, I repeat, you cannot simply settle for jump-shots to break a zone. If you are unconscious from the perimeter, it will certainly make things easier, but you should get at least one touch in the low or high block on each possession.

5) Offensive boards are extremely important as zone defenders will usually not have box-out assignments. We got a ton of offensive boards, but not for the reasons you would want (brick-laying).

I think we did fairly good with spacing and dribbling as too little of the former and too much of the latter allows a zone to stay tight.

A couple important points for getting the ball inside for possible easy buckets are:

1) Stretching the zone with passes to the corners and then skip passes to the opposite side, which would create gaps that Clevin could attempt to dribble-penetrate through, finishing with a dish to an open postman when the zone reacts. If the zone doesn't bite, there will be another guard over-rotating waiting for the kick-out and jumpshot as the perimeter defense will have likely collapsed. Clevin might also be able to get the ball in the post through dribble penetration and/or dishing when gaps materialize through ball-fakes, and pass reversals.

2) Setting inside and outside screens can also be an effective tool in getting a guard free for penetration or a post free for an inside shot. For example, a postman can stay opposite the ball, back-screening the weak side defender. As the ball is skip-passed from the wing to the opposite corner (his corner), the guard should be wide-open for a three. If the guard hesitates, the screened defender will have gotten well around the screen attempting to recover while freeing up the postman (screener) for a possible easy play.


The strategies I have outlined are not meant to show up the coach. In fact, I'm sure he would think they are quite rudimentary. Most of this lesson was directed at our resident I.M.P. who thinks the only way out of a zone is to shoot your way out. :)

YMMV and nothing is a substitute for hard work. :)

Class dismissed!

Please forgive my frisky attitude tonight. I may still be a little loopy after the roller coaster ride against ISU. :)

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

Some one wanna give me the cliff notes version of the above.

Seriously if you are going to be a pest and get peoples goat at least step your quote game up so people can follow better.

[WstateU]

Too much reading for this old man; however I'm sure MTXE's novel would make Mike Cohen proud. :D

[MTXE]

MTXE, you are sooooo right! Coaching staff gets a D this year. UNI pounded us in the lane and we refuse to go zone. It is totaly the coaches fault by not getting the team up for games. We lose to a sorry sCUm team, and Drake? cmon!!! It seems like they cant adjust to the game. Players look like they are too cool to play sometimes. I see other teams push as hard as they can and we are just walking around. By him starting Ellis tells enough about his coaching. Chalk the INDYST win for the fans because without the fans we would have lost by 20! on to evan

Where to begin... oh forget it, it's not worth it. I'll just say this: If you think the coaching staff gets a D for this year, you just flat-out aren't paying attention. HCGM will end up as the MVC coach of the year this year, and he'll deserve it 100%.

Northern Iowa's coach will be getting that honor.

The year isn't finished yet, but if I could be so bold, I would say that coach Marshall gets an A for recruiting! :) He certainly could earn an A for coaching as well depending on how the season ends. As it stands right now I would give him a B.

[rjl]

I haven't read the whole topic, only scanned over some of the posts, but I have a feeling I'm about to get lumped in with MTXE.

Anyway, last night as I watched us attempt to deal with the zone I had two observations: 1. The offensive system on the floor looked completely inept. It looked like the same offense we ran in middle school against a 1-3-1 zone. 2. Our players didn't seem to have any instinct on how to find open areas in the zone, either our post players or shooters.

You can't just run a guy baseline and have your post jog around the lane. You need to either find open areas on the perimeter and shoot them out of it or get the ball to the FT line, force the defense to collapse, then kick it out. I didn't see any of that. Whether that was due to coaching or the players, well, that's well above my pay grade.

What finally got things rolling was when ISU switched to man-to-man for a few positions, we got some scores and stop and suddenly the tide turned. McKenna probably thought a switch would put us back on our heels but we are good enough that it backfired.

In my opinion, we won because ISU went away from what was working and we took full advantage of it. So there is credit and blame to go all around, I think.

I'm just glad we got out of there with a win. I told my wife on the way there that I was concerned ISU would rally around their misfortunes and play with a purpose. Kudos to them for that.

"I haven't read the whole topic, only scanned over some of the posts, but I have a feeling I'm about to get lumped in with MTXE."

You don't want that to happen Royalshock. MTXE has already been condemned by our resident Instruction Manual Proofreader that he hasn't the ability to observe or understand a basketball game. Ha ha ha haaa :)

"Anyway, last night as I watched us attempt to deal with the zone I had two observations: 1. The offensive system on the floor looked completely inept. It looked like the same offense we ran in middle school against a 1-3-1 zone. 2. Our players didn't seem to have any instinct on how to find open areas in the zone, either our post players or shooters."

But Royalshock, you can't get the ball into the post in a zone. Our own resident coaching expert has already said it "would have resulted in about 20 turnovers in the first 24 possessions and WSU would not have had to come back from a 17-point deficit. It would have been 30+."

Indiana State had the game totally locked up with an unbeatable strategy. Perhaps it would be best that I just quote the expert's analysis lest I get anything wrong during an attempted paraphrase due to my lack of basketball knowledge: "Force WSU to hit 3's. They did an excellent job with their game plan and WSU couldn't hit enough 3's to force them out of it." -I.M.P. (Instruction Manual Proofreader)

"You can't just run a guy baseline and have your post jog around the lane. You need to either find open areas on the perimeter and shoot them out of it or get the ball to the FT line, force the defense to collapse, then kick it out. I didn't see any of that. Whether that was due to coaching or the players, well, that's well above my pay grade."

If you don't mind, I would like to provide a few of my own ideas on how to attack a zone. :) The first two things that you should do to beat a zone fit in perfectly with our team composition in regards to depth and athleticism:

1) We need to push the ball up the court in order to beat the defense up the floor and possibly make a play before the zone solidifies.

2) We should full-court press the entire game encouraging a transition-style tempo. Considering our depth relative to theirs, this would be a deadly blow after forty minutes of ball.

3) If their defense is already set up, we must be patient and make sure the people we want shooting (Clevin, Graham, Murry,) are doing the shooting. We don't need Aaron Ellis firing from 18ft.

4) You cannot, I repeat, you cannot simply settle for jump-shots to break a zone. If you are unconscious from the perimeter, it will certainly make things easier, but you should get at least one touch in the low or high block on each possession.

5) Offensive boards are extremely important as zone defenders will usually not have box-out assignments. We got a ton of offensive boards, but not for the reasons you would want (brick-laying).

I think we did fairly good with spacing and dribbling as too little of the former and too much of the latter allows a zone to stay tight.

A couple important points for getting the ball inside for possible easy buckets are:

1) Stretching the zone with passes to the corners and then skip passes to the opposite side, which would create gaps that Clevin could attempt to dribble-penetrate through, finishing with a dish to an open postman when the zone reacts. If the zone doesn't bite, there will be another guard over-rotating waiting for the kick-out and jumpshot as the perimeter defense will have likely collapsed. Clevin might also be able to get the ball in the post through dribble penetration and/or dishing when gaps materialize through ball-fakes, and pass reversals.

2) Setting inside and outside screens can also be an effective tool in getting a guard free for penetration or a post free for an inside shot. For example, a postman can stay opposite the ball, back-screening the weak side defender. As the ball is skip-passed from the wing to the opposite corner (his corner), the guard should be wide-open for a three. If the guard hesitates, the screened defender will have gotten well around the screen attempting to recover while freeing up the postman (screener) for a possible easy play.


The strategies I have outlined are not meant to show up the coach. In fact, I'm sure he would think they are quite rudimentary. Most of this lesson was directed at our resident I.M.P. who thinks the only way out of a zone is to shoot your way out. :)

YMMV and nothing is a substitute for hard work. :)

Class dismissed!

Please forgive my frisky attitude tonight. I may still be a little loopy after the roller coaster ride against ISU. :)

Just so it's clear, MTXE = Cold.

Cold is the only poster I've ever seen on any internet forum to quote an entire post, then re-quote snippets below as he addresses them.

I was holding off on saying that MTXE = Cold until I saw that, and . . . well, here it is.

[MTXE]

Just so it's clear, MTXE = Cold.

Cold is the only poster I've ever seen on any internet forum to quote an entire post, then re-quote snippets below as he addresses them.

I was holding off on saying that MTXE = Cold until I saw that, and . . . well, here it is.

Ha ha haaa. You guys never quit. This site should be renamed Detectivenet.net. :)

I have seen plenty of people reply to a comment and then reply to 'snippets'. If you didn't reply to the entire comment first how would you be able to take snippets out of the specific areas you want to reply to? I guess I'm not computer saavy enough to make it look neat and pretty all the time. Sorry. :(

I do delete some of the stuff in the middle if that is what you meant? I don't do it all the time though. :(

[WSUShokker]

Im not going to quote that monster...but we could never press for 40 minutes because we dont have the quality depth at guard ....we risk getting into foul trouble to early and we need CH to much... imho

and I could care less who the hell mtxe is or protrays ....i mean really who gives a Royale with cheese who the **** he is....( i just wanted to say royale with cheese thats all)

[wsushox1]

Just so it's clear, MTXE = Cold.

Cold is the only poster I've ever seen on any internet forum to quote an entire post, then re-quote snippets below as he addresses them.

I was holding off on saying that MTXE = Cold until I saw that, and . . . well, here it is.

Ha ha haaa. You guys never quit. This site should be renamed Detectivenet.net. :)

I have seen plenty of people reply to a comment and then reply to 'snippets'. If you didn't reply to the entire comment first how would you be able to take snippets out of the specific areas you want to reply to? I guess I'm not computer saavy enough to make it look neat and pretty all the time. Sorry. :(

I do delete some of the stuff in the middle if that is what you meant? I don't do it all the time though. :(

Just admit it man. Come out of the closet bro. We will still accept you.

[MTXE]

Im not going to quote that monster...but we could never press for 40 minutes because we dont have the quality depth at guard ....we risk getting into foul trouble to early and we need CH to much... imho

and I could care less who the hell mtxe is or protrays ....i mean really who gives a Royale with cheese who the #### he is....( i just wanted to say royale with cheese thats all)

Thanks for getting back on topic. The 'list' as you call it is just a collection of ideas. I would think we could press until they stop the zone. All we are trying to do is change their behavior and dictate how the game is going to be played. I would think that we have not only the depth, but the skill, and the athletes to dictate the game to 8 players with 50% of their scoring out from injury.

[kcshocker11]

Some one wanna give me the cliff notes version of the above.

Seriously if you are going to be a pest and get peoples goat at least step your quote game up so people can follow better.

Its MTXE talking in the 3rd person, or maybe just one of his multiple personalities 8) :posterwsu:

[RHshoxfan]

I believe this game went down as a win. I also believe it was win number 20. Maybe its just me, but to have another 20 win season i'm pretty pumped. A win is a win, you can't always do it perfectly.

[ShockerFever]

It is so friggen obvious who MTXE is. What I didn't expect was Cold to continue to hide inside his soft shell even after accurately being called out on what his true identity is. What a pusspack. Seriously.

I bet it's just killing him that he can't do his:


... T

8)

[Shocker85]

... What a pusspack. ...

+1

SF, I like your style.

--'85