Shockers vs Redbirds in game thread

[SubGod22]

Had to miss tonight's game due to a previous appointment involving seared seabass and medium rare sirloin...

Just caught this pic on kansas.com - Graham can fly now?

Now thats MTXE! :posterwu: 8)

He's the hardest player on the court game in and game out.

:yes:

He is the exact reason you can not judge a players game performance based on reading a box score.
If you don't admire or appreciate his effort and desire, you need to find another form of entertainment to watch. 8)

Amen!

[Shocker85]

I was very impressed by Stutz effort last night. He was causing some problems on the perimeter by being aggressive and smart and was fighting in the paint. He may not win every battle but he's battling. He's got a lot of heart.

Boy, that hard fall he took had to hurt and it seemed to take the wind out of his sail a bit. He had been doing well to that point.

--'85.

[pinstripers]

1. Some good minutes by Stutz. That's nice.

2. Amazing D by TM, seriously.

3. Durley seemed to feel that he could not post up their big man. Maybe he was right.

4. Zero opened the game fast. He had 4 points and 4 rebounds in the first 4 minutes?

5. God, I wish Manigault woulg get some minutes.

6. The guy that runs the "noise meter" is much better than he was earlier in the season. Spot on.

7. I don't like 6:00 tip-offs. Wasn't there in time to see it, actually.

8. Early on, I told my wife that there had not been much fouling or many fouls called, either. That was in the first half, obviously.

[WuDrWu]

Many comments regarding Toure' are all spot on but I'll add my .02 anyway. Toure' Murry took the most talented player in the league, BY FAR, and totally frustrated and shut him down for 40 minutes.

If not for a couple of instances where sheer talent and athletic ability took over in the open court, he might have shut out the preseason player of the year. To say Toure' was spectacular on defense and that he outplayed Osiris, is almost insulting. He was much better than that last night.

Clevin was spectacular, again. Nice job by the crowd with the (partial) standing O after the streak came to an end. One thing though, and not to be nitpicky, but last night wasn't the first time Clevin's guy has taken him to the cup with success. I think he's been great on the perimeter, but if the plan is to lock down outside and then get help inside, the plan has not been all that successful, and every other team knows it.

Post help D on the "show" was also much improved as a couple have mentioned, specifically with Garrett. He really disrupted things with the few minutes he had on the court.

J.T. did struggle with his offense but I think that has more to do with Odiakosa being the best post defender in the league, certainly the one most able to physically matchup with him. J.T. adapted and hit a couple of huge 3s. The one before halftime was a dagger.

ISU is going to struggle without OE, DO and Phillips next season. Jank has done a nice job in 3 seasons up there, but he has hardly been without talent. Imho, they should be winning more than they are....while OE could certainly be a better teammate and less of an NBA audition, it would seem to this outside observer that Jank has to wear some of that. That team is too talented to be 5-5 in this league. Way too talented.

What happened to Jackie Charmicheal after he scored 8 of the first 11? Me thinks ISU should have looked at him more, say in the last 36 minutes of the game. If he continues to develop, that kid's going to be a BEAST in this league.

The non stars for WSU were really, really solid. Stutz was disruptive, Kyles gave us energy, Blair was a game changer at times, Ellis (imho) was absolutely spectacular in what he does. AWESOME. Hatch does everything you could ever want and even Demetric gave Clevin a rest and did an admirable job in limited minutes.

[shockar25]

I also think Stutz looked better. While I hate seeing him knocked down like that (right before the bloody nose) I just told my wife he needs to keep doing that again and again and with more authority (not the falling part, the taking it STRONG part- :lol: ). He needs to keep working hard in the weight room to get stronger and stronger and get quicker feet, and then when he takes it to the hole like that the defenders will truly FEAR him rather than look at it as a chance to get a strip or a block. Last night's effort was a step in the right direction for sure. Just as we all know, he's a work in progress.

Aaron did well other than one or 2 ill advised shots and a turnover or so, but overall he did what he does well. Interesting that coach Jans said (in the Locker room show) they have been working on DK at taking more shots, but shots when he's actually set and ready rather than rushed. If he can do that, I think he percentages go way up.

Post/dribble penetration defense are our achilles heels right now. SIU is not what they have been (say, 2-3 years ago) defensively but they have a little more explosive offensive attack and I fear our road woes may continue should we not clamp down on guys driving the lane so easily. To me it looked last night like just a hustle issue, as other than OE, their players aren't quicker than us but we're just not keeping up. Some of it is the screens, but there were plenty of times when they just drove it right in and we were 1 or 2 steps behind.

We did do better overall on defense than last Saturday, but we still have to keep getting better. I'm sure they will, but it's a matter of how quickly.



:wsu_posters:

[Ricardo del Rio]

Ok wheres the radio?

It's gone out 3 or 4 times tonight.

Until Entercom sells 1330, nothing is going to change. They are just a crappy company.

I would have thought it would be up to BGM to buy some new equipment.

I don't know the terms of the contract, but I believe BGM is buying air time only.

The broadcast problems along with countless other problems have been going on long before there was a BGM. Many of the problems have nothing to do with Shocker broadcasts.

[MTXE]

Durley did not look very good with the ball down in the post. His post moves were off last night. I don't know if that is more because of Odiakosa's defense or if he just had a bad game. His 3's were great, though.

I love JT but he had absolutely no answer for 6'8" Odiakosa. I'm hopeful that we will eventually have our own Odiakosa in 7' Orukpe in a few years.

Odiakosa is an absolute beast.

[im4wsu]

Had to miss tonight's game due to a previous appointment involving seared seabass and medium rare sirloin...

Just caught this pic on kansas.com - Graham can fly now?

This is actually the play where he had a foul called against him. After landing on the floor, the Redbird stepped forward into his fallen body and Hatch was called for the foul. It was later said to be described as "he was not in a natural guarding position*".

How was it not called a charge.? His feet were planted, body still and he was not reaching, with contact initiated by the opponent.

HISTORICAL NOTE: I remember when Gene Wiley and Wayne "Bull" Durham would set up a double high post, feet spread apart and arms folded, with Ernie Moore and Lanny VanEman running their defenders into first Wayne and then Gene. Gene was called for a blocking foul, Ralph Miller inquired as to the definition of the call and was told "he was taking too much room on the court".

[ShockerFever]

That was an extremely weak foul call on Hatch and even more of an extremely weak reasoning behind it.

[WuDrWu]

One of those guys did the Kentucky USC game the night before, according to Mitch.......

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=300262579

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=300272724

and that would be Mike Stuart

http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/mike-stuart

[SpanglerFan316]

I didn't want to start a thread about it but I saw this on the Redbird site. http://redbirdfan.com/msgforum/viewt...hp?f=2&t=13092
I've been busy and have not been reading much SN lately. Here is ISUMatt's story:

Well as most of you know on the morning of January 3rd, 2010, we suffered a pretty big fire at our house in Bolingbrook losing almost all of our possessions. We were lucky that my wife and 3 girls were at church in the am, and my smoke detector saved my life, alerting me to the fire, where I was able to safely exit the house with my 2 dogs. For the rest of that week, we all lived in my parents house, with me having to go back everyday for meetings, walkthroughs, and salvaging (very little of that). After a week at my parents, we moved into our temp house which is owned and connected to the Church we attend. Its a large empty house, that we have invaded and for the last 2-3 weeks have trierd to go through all of ther donations of clothes, books, and toys. From the sounds of everything, they will completelty gut out my old house leaving up 3 of the 4 outside walls for what they consider a remodel. By leaving those walls up, we wont be reassessed as severly with our taxes. This decision hasnt been made official yet, but that seems what they are leaning toward.

Has this been discussed here? The SIU board apparently picked this up:

Dont know if anybody noticed but I was on Salukitalk this mourning and they have an announcement up about ISUMatts situation. Not all Southern fans are bad i guess

[WstateU]

One of those guys did the Kentucky USC game the night before, according to Mitch.......

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=300262579

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=300272724

and that would be Mike Stuart


http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/mike-stuart

I believe this is the guy coach Marshall mentioned on the post game show.
Paraphrasing… “He’s a good referee that I’m very familiar with from my time in the South.”

[SubGod22]

I didn't have an issue with the call. Hatch did end up at his feet and the player appeared to have to try and step over him as Graham slid into his feet. If that causes an issue then it should be a blocking foul on Hatch. It's one of those fouls you hate to call but in some cases you have to.

Shortly there after there should have been one against ISU on another loose ball play where someone for ISU dove and used his body to take out DKs legs and get the ball. Marshall wasn't happy with the no call especially only a possession or two after the Hatch call.

I haven't watched the game on TV yet so maybe that could change some of my thinking, but from row 25 I can't argue the Hatch call. He wasn't in a legal guarding position.

[Aargh]

Stutz - was on Eldridge one time almost at half court on a switch. Stutz was just ready to back off when Eldridge went straight at him. Stutz reached a hand out and got ball on the bounce. Eldridge beat Stutz getting to the ball, but Stutz nearly stripped Eldridge at half-court.

Hannah - I'm ready to say better than Bruton. Hannah does a great job hitting open guys. Bruton didn't seem to need an open guy. It seemed like he could throw the ball to "no one" and when the ball got to its destination there was a guy ready to catch it with a clear trip to the bucket. I never thought Bruton's FG % justified the number of shots he took. He scored a lot, but as I recall, took too many shots to get his points. Bruton wasn't really a "pass first" PG.

Murry - Eldridge was frustrated. When ISU was making a comeback late in the game, you could watch Eldridge trying more and more things to get some shots off. He made a couple of shots in that part of the game that any coach would gladly let an opponent take - and that was about half his points for the night. Eldridge appeared to be trying to force things to get shots off and it looked like he didn't like the way it was working.

Hatch - I wouldn't want to wake up as him the day after a game. There's gonna be some hurtin' parts.

More on Stutz - I think he'll start getting a few more favorable calls (both ways) as officials see him more - basically his Jr and Sr years. That's another pattern for big guys. Calls that go against them as Fr and So become SOP no calls when they are upperclassmen.

[Rosewood]

I didn't have an issue with the call. Hatch did end up at his feet and the player appeared to have to try and step over him as Graham slid into his feet. If that causes an issue then it should be a blocking foul on Hatch. It's one of those fouls you hate to call but in some cases you have to.

Shortly there after there should have been one against ISU on another loose ball play where someone for ISU dove and used his body to take out DKs legs and get the ball. Marshall wasn't happy with the no call especially only a possession or two after the Hatch call.

I haven't watched the game on TV yet so maybe that could change some of my thinking, but from row 25 I can't argue the Hatch call. He wasn't in a legal guarding position.

Mike Kennedy even said he often has wanted that to be a foul call and it is often not called. But y'all are both right -- it is a foul. As a fan, it is definitely a foul I can live with a player getting called on.

If / when you do watch the playback I'm curious as to why you think in the 2nd half out of seemingly nowhere a loose game started getting called very tight.