Big East domino effect and the Valley.

[WstateU]

Adding SLU would be sort of like adding UMKC. Yes, they are in large cities, but neighboring BCS schools (KU, KSU, MU in KC and MU, UI in STL) will forever overshadow the city schools.

Given only the two I would certainly choose SLU (no-brainer), but if there are better options out there, take them. And no, I don't consider ORU a better option.

What's wrong with ORU? I have a difficult time seeing how Evansville, Drake, or UNI could ever been seen as bringing more to the table.

Unfortunately, their (ORU) institution is a major mess.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=071226_1_A1_hTheu40351

[7hottamales]

Adding SLU would be sort of like adding UMKC. Yes, they are in large cities, but neighboring BCS schools (KU, KSU, MU in KC and MU, UI in STL) will forever overshadow the city schools.

Given only the two I would certainly choose SLU (no-brainer), but if there are better options out there, take them. And no, I don't consider ORU a better option.

What's wrong with ORU? I have a difficult time seeing how Evansville, Drake, or UNI could ever been seen as bringing more to the table.

Unfortunately, their (ORU) institution is a major mess.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic..._A1_hTheu40351

Wow, I had not read about that. Might be a couple of decent baseball coaches looking to jump ship... I kid, I kid.

[shocks771]

ORU is going to be just fine. They will make changes and forgive and forget. This donation from the founder of Hobby Lobby will help.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080515_11_A12_hLivin916815

[RoyalShock]

I know ORU has done well with Sutton at the helm. But there will come a day in the not-so-distant future when he will move on. I don't have confidence that they will remain a solid program. They got pretty lucky with Self/Hinson/Sutton.

If the Valley is going to change, I want to see the average profile of member schools improve.

- Consistently good (currently and historically - no "flash in the pans" or "they were great back in the 60s") with respectable attendance.
- More than just a few thousand students.
- Either a big school or the biggest school in their metro area. (ie. Tulsa over ORU)

Evansville is the only school in the Valley I would be willing to swap for ORU.

[7hottamales]

I know ORU has done well with Sutton at the helm. But there will come a day in the not-so-distant future when he will move on. I don't have confidence that they will remain a solid program. They got pretty lucky with Self/Hinson/Sutton.

If the Valley is going to change, I want to see the average profile of member schools improve.

- Consistently good (currently and historically - no "flash in the pans" or "they were great back in the 60s") with respectable attendance.
- More than just a few thousand students.
- Either a big school or the biggest school in their metro area. (ie. Tulsa over ORU)

Evansville is the only school in the Valley I would be willing to swap for ORU.

For the most part, the limiting factor in filling that profile is football.

ORU has very strong Men's/Women's basketball programs and baseball while getting no support from a horrendous league. Both men's basketball and baseball have had successful multiple generations of coaches. That's a sign of program stability rather than lightening in a bottle with one coach. It would bring Valley exposure in a new state and one of the largest, most densely populated metro areas in the midwest.

By biggest concern is that it has an extremely small student body (very close to Drake), but I'm not sure that student body size has all that much relevancy to athletic performance in sports outside of football. In fact, Duke, Wake Forest, Providence, Tulsa, Villanova, St Joe, & Xavier are all examples of small schools that seem to do fine with their athletic departments.

[7hottamales]

- Either a big school or the biggest school in their metro area. (ie. Tulsa over ORU)

It is worth pointing out that I do believe Oral Roberts actually does have more undergrads than Tulsa.

[RoyalShock]

I just have a gut feeling that when Sutton leaves, their basketball program will become more comparable to UMKC.

One thing I will give them is attendance. It looks like they range anywhere from 4000 to 8000, depending on the opponent.

[7hottamales]

I just have a gut feeling that when Sutton leaves, their basketball program will become more comparable to UMKC.

One thing I will give them is attendance. It looks like they range anywhere from 4000 to 8000, depending on the opponent.

You may be right...especially if they stay in that abomination of a league. Of course one could argue that Evansville and Drake have basically been UMKC for the last decade with the exception of Drake's one year under Keno.

Am I correct to assume that you are not much of a Valley baseball fan? My prediction is that ORU will have to lose a lot of coaches before they fall to Drake's and UMKC's level in that sport.

[RoyalShock]

My reasoning is all on the basketball side of things.

I would love for the MVC to become a better baseball conference, but not at the expense of basketball.

Like I said, I'll trade Evansville for ORU, just not anyone else. If there was a major shakeup of the conference (such that some very good programs are added, ie. DePaul, Marquette, Dayton, Xavier, etc.) and ORU just happened to be one of the lower-profile teams included, I could live with it.

[rrshock]

This thing could make for interesting goings on here in the next few months. It is very possible that the MVC as we know it is done for after this year. Who knows? If schools want to leave for a football conference, let them. The MVC isn't one and is better off without the schools that are more concerned about football.

If Marquette, DePaul, Dayton, Xavier and company all want to come to this wonderful league, then by all means, roll out the red carpet. Adding those 4 schools could legitimately make the MVC a consistent 4 bid conference with even more on some good years. Of course the MVC would need to kindly ask Evansville and someone else to leave, but anything is possible.

[60Shock]

This is not a pleasant thought. The loss of Creighton would be a disaster to the Valley. Basketball would take a major hit and one which the Valley may never be able to recover from.

Unfortunately or fortunately, conferences are going to continue to expand. We can either be one of the schools like Creighton and SIU which will eventually be invited to join a BCS conference once they upgrade their football. Or we can continue to bury our heads in the sand, denying football, and choose to perhaps be the Annual MVC basketball champion by remaining in a lacklust conference with the rest of the also rans.

[rrshock]

This is not a pleasant thought. The loss of Creighton would be a disaster to the Valley. Basketball would take a major hit and one which the Valley may never be able to recover from.

Unfortunately or fortunately, conferences are going to continue to expand. We can either be one of the schools like Creighton and SIU which will eventually be invited to join a BCS conference once they upgrade their football. Or we can continue to bury our heads in the sand, denying football, and choose to perhaps be the Annual MVC basketball champion by remaining in a lacklust conference with the rest of the also rans.

I guess that is a concern.

How will Notre Dame be affected by the Big East breaking up? They don't play Big East football. Wonder if they would be interested in a new MVC?

[Ta town]

This is not a pleasant thought. The loss of Creighton would be a disaster to the Valley. Basketball would take a major hit and one which the Valley may never be able to recover from.

Unfortunately or fortunately, conferences are going to continue to expand. We can either be one of the schools like Creighton and SIU which will eventually be invited to join a BCS conference once they upgrade their football. Or we can continue to bury our heads in the sand, denying football, and choose to perhaps be the Annual MVC basketball champion by remaining in a lacklust conference with the rest of the also rans.

I guess that is a concern.

How will Notre Dame be affected by the Big East breaking up? They don't play Big East football. Wonder if they would be interested in a new MVC?

what? LMAO

Seriously people if all the kid toucher u's leave the big east then they will form thier own conference by plucking a few from a-10 and mvc and maybe one from somewhere else.

Depaul, Marquette, Crieghton, St. Louis, Xavier, Dayton, Notre Dame, and I would guess crappy Layola of Chicago.

In all honesty why would they want to associate with the rest of the MVC?

WSU without football will be sort out of luck when it comes to leagues if the MVC starts to break up and eventually suck.

[DUShock]

WSU without football will eventually lead us to become/evolve on par with SLU and UMKC. It'll take 15 or so years but football is where the coin is.

Go Shocks!!!!

[vbird53]

Seriously people if all the kid toucher u's leave the big east then they will form thier own conference by plucking a few from a-10 and mvc and maybe one from somewhere else.

That's really uncalled for.