What Is So Special About July 1, 1999?

[another shocker]

Turgeon dug himself a pretty big hole with some of his statements, but he did take us from abysmal to respectable, which was a challenging abyss to get the program over. At the same time, the likelihood we'd be where we are today if he was still at the helm is basically nill. We'd just be another UNI.

any halfway decent coach could succeed at wichita state. how lucky of turgeon to be hired to coach here.

[Play Angry]

Eh, we've had 15 head coaches since 1934 and Turgeon was pretty inarguably the 4th best during that lengthy timeframe (behind HCGM, Ralph Miller and Gene Smithson) so I'm gonna say he was pretty far above average although obviously way below the greatest coach in program history (yes HCGM has taken this mantle by now). Denigrating fHCMT's performance as meh both discredits the magnitude of HCGM's brilliant accomplishments (he did not simply restore a blueblood to its birthright position at the tippy top of the hoops hierarchy) and also condemns a solid 80% of our basketball history to dumpster level status (also unfair, although we can pretty much toss all of the 90s in there as a token gesture of impartial judgment).

Turg was an awesome hire and performed well, and I'm grateful for what he did here. Without him, we would have never snagged HCGM. It was the right place, right time for all parties and everyone benefited from the exchange.

[Ricardo del Rio]

Eh, we've had 15 head coaches since 1934 and Turgeon was pretty inarguably the 4th best during that lengthy timeframe (behind HCGM, Ralph Miller and Gene Smithson) so I'm gonna say he was pretty far above average although obviously way below the greatest coach in program history (yes HCGM has taken this mantle by now). Denigrating fHCMT's performance as meh both discredits the magnitude of HCGM's brilliant accomplishments (he did not simply restore a blueblood to its birthright position at the tippy top of the hoops hierarchy) and also condemns a solid 80% of our basketball history to dumpster level status (also unfair, although we can pretty much toss all of the 90s in there as a token gesture of impartial judgment).


Turg was an awesome hire and performed well, and I'm grateful for what he did here. Without him, we would have never snagged HCGM. It was the right place, right time for all parties and everyone benefited from the exchange.

Thank you for this post.

Coach Turgeon's detractor above has a barbed wire view of most everything except his own opinion, of course.

[WSUwatcher]

Jim Schaus can't get enough credit for where we are today.
GM thought he had bought a sweet ride only to take delivery of a stripped down version. He then proceeded to build his own very sweet ride.

Exactly, Top -- MT may have revived the Shocker program, and he deserves credit for that, because others had tried and failed. And, as PA notes, his success reminded other coaches of what could still be done at WSU, thus making it a more attractive job to 3G. Still, his own program was in significant decline when he left, hence the softness and shorthanded roster that led to Marshall's infinitely frustrating 11-20 his first year here. When a guy goes 444-153 (.744) for 18 of his 19 seasons, plus one year of .355 ball in the exact season when his predecessor left town as quickly as possible in search of the next job up from "this level," taking his most heralded recruit along, it isn't hard to figure out the outlier among the 19.

Marshall took a different approach and aimed above "this level," making WSU not just his current job but also his "next job," and Schaus enabled that and then backed him all the way in doing so. MT deserves his share of credit for the renaissance at WSU, but Jim Schaus (didn't he also hire MT, by the way?) is the one who really set it in motion and cultivated it. Hail Schaus!

[another shocker]

Eh, we've had 15 head coaches since 1934 and Turgeon was pretty inarguably the 4th best during that lengthy timeframe (behind HCGM, Ralph Miller and Gene Smithson) so I'm gonna say he was pretty far above average although obviously way below the greatest coach in program history (yes HCGM has taken this mantle by now). Denigrating fHCMT's performance as meh both discredits the magnitude of HCGM's brilliant accomplishments (he did not simply restore a blueblood to its birthright position at the tippy top of the hoops hierarchy) and also condemns a solid 80% of our basketball history to dumpster level status (also unfair, although we can pretty much toss all of the 90s in there as a token gesture of impartial judgment).

Turg was an awesome hire and performed well, and I'm grateful for what he did here. Without him, we would have never snagged HCGM. It was the right place, right time for all parties and everyone benefited from the exchange.

you presume a lot, but thanks for the history lesson on wsu basketball. you left out eddie fogler, though- the guy that took wsu from 14-14 to two straight tourney appearances.

any halfway decent coach could succeed at wichita state. it's too bad they haven't hired too many of them.

[forevershockerfan]

Ding, ding, ding.

It was AD Schaus' first day on the job.

Who would have guessed that it was the first step in a long journey to the P-6?




Nothing could be finer than recognizing AD Schaus at half-time of the first American Athletic Conference game at Koch Arena. It would bring the house down.

I realize many would not agree with my next sentiment, but I would not mind, if Coach Mark Turgeon was present too.

Before Shaus and Turgeon, we were in the wilderness.

My opinions are unsolicited but free of charge. When I survey the success of our Basketball Program, Mr. Schaus was the very best A.D. in Shocker History!!!!!!!!!!! Why? He could raise money, he was an asset to any and all Shocker sports programs, but last but not least, he hired Gregg Marshall to coach our basketball team. This hiring went way beyond my expectations and made the impossible it seemed to become reality!!!!!!!

[ShockTalk]

you presume a lot, but thanks for the history lesson on wsu basketball. you left out eddie fogler, though- the guy that took wsu from 14-14 to two straight tourney appearances.

any halfway decent coach could succeed at wichita state. it's too bad they haven't hired too many of them.

You're going to pull the Folger card. Well, IMO, that does backup your argument as his 3 year winning stint did it almost completely with Smithson players (something he also did at his next job as well). However, that's just not true with MT. He built his successful teams pretty much from scratch, something Randy "any halfway decent coach" Smithson could not do even having players like Evans and Perez (who was not his recruit). MT had some other things get in his way, but his timing to leave, that I thought was one year too late, turned out to open the door for Marshall's hire. I hope you don't believe his success is just because any halfway decent coach could succeed at Wichita State.

[WSUwatcher]

Fogler had a good record and was clearly the master of Xs and Os and game planning, but he used his predecessor's players to achieve his WSU success, did little meaningful recruiting of his own, and absolutely buried the program when he fled for his next stepping stone. Neither Mike Cohen, who I suspect we all agree does not qualify as "halfway decent," nor Scott Thompson and Randy Smithson, whose overall coaching records suggest that they do qualify, were able to dig it up.

Fast Eddie would be a good consultant or TV guy -- and those seem to be the roles into which he's settled -- but there's no way, either at WSU or thereafter, that he was a better coach overall than MT was.

[Play Angry]

As @WSUwatcher: and @ShockTalk: stated above, Eddie did a fine job playing the hand he was dealt - he kept the program clean, produced 1 at large worthy team and another that got in with a dramatic MVC Tournament win in his 3 seasons here. 0-2 record in the Dance, though.

fHCMT rang up 2 of our program's 8 NCAAT wins as of his departure and, more importantly IMO, built his accomplishments from scratch as he inherited a grade-A CF (not our shooting guard) on arrival.

Is there an argument to be made that Eddie should be higher than Mark on our all-time greats list other than an abbreviated-but-higher winning %? If so, I'd be interested in hearing it.

[1972Shocker]

Should Jim Schaus be inducted into the Shocker Sports Hall of Fame? Arguably he built the foundation that made the move to the American Conference a possibility and eventually a reality. Personally, I believe Jim has earned this honor. Perhaps he should be joined by Shirley and Don Beggs.

[WuShock16]

Sho. uld Jim Schaus be inducted into the Shocker Sports Hall of Fame? Arguably he built the foundation that made the move to the American Conference a possibility and eventually a reality. Personally, I believe Jim has earned this honor. Perhaps he should be joined by Shirley and Don Beggs.

I don't have any doubt that Jim Schaus will be in the Shocker HOF at some point. It is just a matter of the best timing.

Not sure about the Beggses...and that's not a negative vote. I honestly just don't know.

Here's my question: does Turgeon ever get in? Personally, I hope he does. I am curious to what others think.

[1972Shocker]

I don't have any doubt that Jim Schaus will be in the Shocker HOF at some point. It is just a matter of the best timing.

Not sure about the Beggses...and that's not a negative vote. I honestly just don't know.

Here's my question: does Turgeon ever get in? Personally, I hope he does. I am curious to what others think.

I don't think Coach Turgeon has the resume or longevity. I don't see him getting in.

[another shocker]

You're going to pull the Folger card. Well, IMO, that does backup your argument as his 3 year winning stint did it almost completely with Smithson players (something he also did at his next job as well). However, that's just not true with MT. He built his successful teams pretty much from scratch, something Randy "any halfway decent coach" Smithson could not do even having players like Evans and Perez (who was not his recruit). MT had some other things get in his way, but his timing to leave, that I thought was one year too late, turned out to open the door for Marshall's hire. I hope you don't believe his success is just because any halfway decent coach could succeed at Wichita State.

fogler inherited a 14-14 team. bottom line. wait a minute.. why did i even reply to this troll thread? turgeon, hunh? lol

aint no troll like an old troll.

[ShockTalk]

I agree with @1972Shocker: on both counts, but I do believe it is close.

To the plus, 3 NITs going 2-3 with 2 of those losses a 2OT loss to Florida St and the "should have won" loss to Vandy. A S16 including knocking a 2 seed TN. 7 seasons with only a first season below .500. Three 20+ win seasons.

To the negative for HoF consideration, finishing below .600 overall. Leaving on what felt like a "down" year. Starting that year 9-0, then going 8-14 and having a losing MVC season. Starting that MVC campaign 3-6, turning it around going 5-1 to only finish losing the last 3, the bracket buster, and 1st game of the Valley tourney.

[ShockTalk]

fogler inherited a 14-14 team. bottom line. wait a minute.. why did i even reply to this troll thread? turgeon, hunh? lol

aint no troll like an old troll.

:highly_amused: Troll thread???? RdR a troll? No? Troll post, maybe? Damn good troll that gets solid posters liking his post. No? Did you mean you're the troll? After all, your post only received disagreeing posts and no likes.

MT inherited a 12-17 team that lost 3 starting seniors. Bottom line indeed.