WSU is a very balanced team

[ROOT ANGRY!]

[QUOTE=Jamar Howard 4 President;620641]KenPom has WSU ranked #17 today. Interestingly, they are one of only 7 teams that rank in the top 25 of both offensive and defensive efficiency. #25 on offense, #15 on defense. I don’t think it is a surprise to anyone on this board that WSU is one of the most balanced teams in the country.

You'll note that our opponents' defensive efficiency, under the strength of schedule heading, is ranked #3. Should come as no surprise that our offensive efficiency ranking is on afterburners, as we're facing poorer competition now, and seeing team chemistry and rotations improve on a nearly game by game basis.

I don't know if we'll match the final ratings of the 2014 squad (8 off, 12 def, #5 overall), but I'd be willing to bet $100 of Doc's money that we'll end up in the Kenpom top 10 at seasons end, with 15 off and 15 def ratings.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

I think we have the opportunity to develop a rotation even better than Chadrack/Kadeem/Darius that one year.

I couldn't disagree more. Shaq and Anton are just fine, but will never be equal to (and definitely not better than) the 3 headed monster at the 5 back in '13-'14. I would take Darius over any of the players mentioned from either year, and I'd take any of the "Big 3" over any of this year's possible 3rd stringers (Bush, Rano, etc.)

'13-'14 was the only year so far under Marshall where our 5 spot wasn't a liability against elite teams. Even the Final Four team the year prior was often overmatched at the 5. That team simply had an amazing abundance of talent 1-4, plus Carl Hall working his butt off to minimize the damage at the 5 spot as much as possible.

[asiseeit]

I think two factors contributed to UNI's Koch's relative success against the Shocks. I say relative success because a 14 point outing isn't exactly going crazy -- only 4 more points then Shaq scored -- so it was a little more than a wash.

The main factor IMO was how the Shocks (and most teams most likely would as well) chose to defend UNI. The focus was on defending the 3-point line and trying to keep Washpun drives into the lane under control. Because of that our guards and wings were not really digging down on post possessions like they often do and which was a key factor in holding Zimmerman, Poeltl and Mockevicius below their averages.

Another factor was the way the referees where calling the game inside. I don't think the calls particularly favored either team but it did work somewhat to Koch's benefit because he is such a good FT shooter. He scored 8 of his 14 points from the line. As others have pointed out he was only 3-9 from the field.

I am not saying the Shockers post players are great individual defenders. However, I don't think Bennett Koch necessarily exposed anything that wasn't already known. From my perspective it was more about the Shockers not wanting UNI's guards and wings to beat us from the perimeter and wanting to make it difficult for Washpun to get to the basket.

OK, apply your logic to teams defending us as we have a driver and good shooting wings. That should
mean our centers getting one on one defense on them where, if they were above average centers, THEY
should be able to score much easier in the paint. By and large I think our centers seldom show good
post moves and seldom attack the basket even against a single defender.

[Cdizzle]

2013-2014 Carter/Lufile/Coleby:
47.7mpg 16.4ppg 12.3rpg 0.7apg 0.7stl 2.9blk 2.2to 51.9% FG, 60.4% FT (.34pts/min .26rb/min)

2015-2016 Grady/Morris/Rauno/Wamukota
50.6mpg 17.3ppg 12.0rpg 1.2apg 0.9stl 1.3bl 2.7to 49.8% FG, 65.9% FT (.35pts/min .24rb/min)

The 2014 team averaged about 1blk and .7rb per 40 better than the 2016 team. All the other per40 numbers are very slightly (negligible) in favor of this year's team. Again, this doesn't take into account difference in SOS either, which is not insignificant at this point. For reference the 2014 post-monster scored 3 rebounds against Kentucky.

I guess I'm not seeing the huge difference, except that this year's post still has a chance to beef up their numbers against the dregs of the Valley.

[asiseeit]

Before I get grilled I'd like to qualify my thoughts on our big men. When I say our post defense is
a weakness I mean it is probably the weakest aspect of OUR team, but our team doesn't have ANY
glaring weaknesses. Our post play is pretty decent on both ends just not at the level of other
ranked teams. Lets face it. Neither of our centers averages a block a game. Both barely average
three rebounds a game. 7.4 and 6.2 PPG probably rank pretty low against the center position of
other ranked teams. Fortunately, to be good, we don't have to have great numbers out of our centers,
we just have to not get dominated there cause we will make it up on most teams in other areas. SM
is improving. AG has been sporadic. If SM continues his improvement and AG plays to his potential
we will be tough for anyone and that has to happen for us to make a F16 run. Combine it with some
dynamic perimeter shooting and - who knows?

[Shocktoberfest]

Here is my opinion on a deep NCAA run. The issue will be depth in the post. But I think we have the opportunity to develop a rotation even better than Chadrack/Kadeem/Darius that one year.

Shaq and Anton are by far our best post players, and if Shaq keeps developing at the rate he has from the beginning of the season to now, he will be solid from here on out. Anton just needs a little confidence back on his shot, and he'll be good. The issue is the drop off when those two aren't playing. There HAS to be one more guy to step up and play big minutes and thrive. If that doesn't happen, I think we get eroded late in a game against a post heavy team. If someone like Rashard, Rauno, or even Bush step up to make that drop off less than it is currently, that rotation could be better than the undefeated 3 headed monster.

Hell, maybe even McDuffie getting some minutes at the 4 would add an extra element to the post depth.

editing the end to add another thought: I think the best bet honestly is Rashard putting it all together. I think if he can take his missed opportunities around the rim, and halve them, he would be scoring almost 10pts a game. I think he will put it all together here shortly. The only downside to that is we'd be running a relatively short post rotation with Kelly/Shaq/Grady it would be nice to get Rauno or Bush polished up.

Agreed! Rashard is so close. He does head-scratching things sometimes. But if/when he puts it together soon he will be a huge help. He is so dang athletic. And I am just thrilled with how Shaq Wall has come along. Man he is a different dude.

[proshox]

Any chance that Hamilton is part of the puzzle by March? He seems physically capable of competing. My guess is that he needs to understand how to execute the game plan.

[wusphlash]

I have to agree with those disappointed with our post play this year. Yes there have been moments where play has been solid, others where I'm left scratching my head.

To Shaq's credit he has shown a lot of improvement when early I wasn't even sure if he would be on the team second semester. Now he's got to be able to stay on the floor.

Anton is not what I expected. All conference first team, all defensive team in the Horizon and he won't sniff an award this year. I thought averages of 10 and 5 would be a given. I can't explain it. Call me befuddled.

Rauno looks like a spider on roller skates. He has, somehow, been somewhat effective lately. Still doesn't have the strength to hold his position.

Bush seems to be going through the motions. Maybe it's his back. Maybe.

My biggest problem with the UNI game and Koch it that most of the fouls, and there were fouls, we're unnecessary. Shaq slapping down, and grabbing a guy around the waist. Rauno and Anton riding the guy 10 feet from the basket. Bush, nuff said.

Frankly, I would put the 12/13, 13/14 groups well ahead of this bunch. I hope they make me eat my words.

[Shockers5150]

It's all about matchups, (2014 being an example), but this really could be THE year. Keeping expectations measured, but a healthy WSU is just a tough game for anyone. Seton Hall was a wake up call to some degree. As long as the Shockers protect the ball, they are just tough to beat.

[1972Shocker]

OK, apply your logic to teams defending us as we have a driver and good shooting wings. That should
mean our centers getting one on one defense on them where, if they were above average centers, THEY
should be able to score much easier in the paint. By and large I think our centers seldom show good
post moves and seldom attack the basket even against a single defender.

I don't think anyone is arguing we have elite post players. But the current year post by committee is statistically comparable to what we have seen in recent years including the Final Four team of 2012-13 and the 35-1 team of 2013-14:

2015-16 (to date) - Grady, Morris, Nurger, Wamukota: 13.9 points and 9.6 rebounds per 40 minutes of playing time
2014-15 - Carter, Morris, Nurger, Wamukota: 16.4 points and 8.9 rebounds per 40 minutes of playing time
2013-14 - Carter, Lufile, Coleby: 13.7 points and 10.3 rebounds per 40 minutes of total playing time
2012-13 - Hall, Lufile, Orupke: 12.8 points and 10.1 rebounds per 40 minutes of total playing time

Methodology: Total points/rebounds scored by the group / total minutes played by the group * 40 (calculations not guaranteed).

UNI kind of did a comparable thing to the Shockers. They decided they were not going to let Fred beat them like he did Indiana State and they worked hard to get the ball out of his hands and keep him out of the lane. Our post committee contributed 15 points and 8 rebounds in 40 minutes which was about what they have averaged this year. In this particular game Ron and Markis stepped up and the Shockers depth contributed mightily as the Shockers bench outscored the Panthers bench 30-2. Fred ended up with 12 points but half of those were on the 2 late treys.

So I guess this shows that teams come in with a game plan to take away or limit certain things but it is difficult to take away everything.

The stats seem to indicate that this year's post by committee group is comparable to what we have been putting on the floor in recent years as a group.

[1972Shocker]

Any chance that Hamilton is part of the puzzle by March? He seems physically capable of competing. My guess is that he needs to understand how to execute the game plan.

Eric is certainly and intriguing player. He is the one big man in our group that I don't really grimace about when he steps outside and shoots a trey. Very small sample size but his 4-9 is a lot better than the 1-7 that Anton and Rauno each have. It even beats Landry's 3-10.

That said it's hard to see Eric becoming a significant part of the puzzle this year. Kind of wish he had redshirted at this point. Still there appears to be some big upside if 3G can find the key to unlock that potential.

Let's say the light bulb comes on for Eric next year. A front line of Markis, Eric and Willis could be something to see if operating at full potential.

[ShockdaWorld]

Eric is certainly and intriguing player. He is the one big man in our group that I don't really grimace about when he steps outside and shoots a trey. Very small sample size but his 4-9 is a lot better than the 1-7 that Anton and Rauno each have. It even beats Landry's 3-10.

That said it's hard to see Eric becoming a significant part of the puzzle this year. Kind of wish he had redshirted at this point. Still there appears to be some big upside if 3G can find the key to unlock that potential.

Let's say the light bulb comes on for Eric next year. A front line of Markis, Eric and Willis could be something to see if operating at full potential.

If ShaqWall continues to improve as he has this year and a combination of those three guys is able to force him out of his starter spot, we will have a VERY good frontline.

[wusphlash]

I guess it's unfair to l base my concerns about our inside presence solely on the 5 position. Especially when the 12/13, 13/14 teams had the benefit of a 4 named Cleanthony Early. A luxury we don't have this year. So I will revise my statement to say that our 4/5 combinations those years were better than our current. Possibly Markis could make a difference but he is yet so young and underweight.

[im4wsu]

KenPom has WSU ranked #17 today. Interestingly, they are one of only 7 teams that rank in the top 25 of both offensive and defensive efficiency. #25 on offense, #15 on defense. I don’t think it is a surprise to anyone on this board that WSU is one of the most balanced teams in the country.


Interesting examples of not so balanced teams:

Rank	Team	Off Eff Rank	Def Eff Rank
5	North Carolina	2	56
6	West Virginia	61	2
14	SMU	5	72
18	Iowa State	3	116
19	St Mary's	6	89
20	Duke	4	122
21	Valpo	126	3
28	UConn	96	11
30	Florida	132	6
31	Notre Dame	1	236
33	Michigan	16	126
34	Butler	10	156

What the heck Notre Dame?!?!

Even after Bradley, we're #17, #25 but dropped to #18 defensive.

[shoxilla]

Massey composite from last week shows Shox @ 35 but the highest rating comes from Haslametrics who says:

http://haslametrics.com/ratings2.php?tid=5471

http://www.masseyratings.com/cb/compare.htm