Ingredients for Shockers to be Recognized as a Perennial National Powerhouse

[Shocker1976]

It doesn't take in account of what an actual change in conference affiliation would do (e.g. replace the MVC conference schedule with X conference schedule, re-project WSU record and RpI). My assumption the better conference schedule would wash the additional losses that the better schedule brought. That probably to simplistic, but for 10 minute exercise it will have to do.

I concur with your CU calculation...that was the most surprising thing that came from this analysis - how sucky the MVC is this year. I'm worried that if WSU doesn't win in STL, it might be a little dicey on selection sunday. We really need at least 1 or 2 more teams in the MVC to seperate themselves from the bottom feeders of the MVC.

SB your analysis of the Shockers' RPI potential effect on other conferences is informative; unless the Big East invites and WSU is willing to join, at present the Shockers have no option better than staying in the MVC. Under such a scenario the Shockers need to undertake a two pronged strategy -

1. Work with and encourage other Valley members to strengthen their basketball programs; and, more importantly

2. Schedule as many as possible (5 or 6?) "out of conference" games each season with the top tier teams from the B12, B10, PAC12, Big East and ACC.

The teams I would like to see (and might agree to play the Shockers) in these 5-6 games - Oklahoma State, Iowa State, Texas, Baylor, Michigan, Iowa, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Arizona, Oregon, Colorado, UCLA, Butler, Creighton, Villanova, Xavier, Louisville, North Carolina, Duke, Pittsburgh, and Syracuse. I hope we keep Saint Louis while adding Cincinnati and Memphis on a home and home basis to our "out of conference" schedule. Annual schedules like this would be a return to the 1960's and Ralph Miller teams.

[Dave Stalwart]

SB your analysis of the Shockers' RPI potential effect on other conferences is informative; unless the Big East invites and WSU is willing to join, at present the Shockers have no option better than staying in the MVC. Under such a scenario the Shockers need to undertake a two pronged strategy -

1. Work with and encourage other Valley members to strengthen their basketball programs; and, more importantly

2. Schedule as many as possible (5 or 6?) "out of conference" games each season with the top tier teams from the B12, B10, PAC12, Big East and ACC.

Regarding #1, I wonder if the other valley coaches would be interested in coming to a head coaching camp held in the off season by Gregg Marshall :)
There could be workshops on recruiting, practice plans, scheduling, in game coaching, etc. it would be fantastic for the Valley to have the rest of its coaches learn how to coach a basketball program.

Maybe he could also set up days where he would come "coach your team for a day" too!

That would be a pretty solid way to get the MVC strong again.

[ripemupshocks]

Regarding #1, I wonder if the other valley coaches would be interested in coming to a head coaching camp held in the off season by Gregg Marshall :)
There could be workshops on recruiting, practice plans, scheduling, in game coaching, etc. it would be fantastic for the Valley to have the rest of its coaches learn how to coach a basketball program.

Maybe he could also set up days where he would come "coach your team for a day" too!

That would be a pretty solid way to get the MVC strong again.

Tongue-in-cheek? right?

[ripemupshocks]

2. Schedule as many as possible (5 or 6?) "out of conference" games each season with the top tier teams from the B12, B10, PAC12, Big East and ACC.

The teams I would like to see (and might agree to play the Shockers) in these 5-6 games - Oklahoma State, Iowa State, Texas, Baylor, Michigan, Iowa, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Arizona, Oregon, Colorado, UCLA, Butler, Creighton, Villanova, Xavier, Louisville, North Carolina, Duke, Pittsburgh, and Syracuse. I hope we keep Saint Louis while adding Cincinnati and Memphis on a home and home basis to our "out of conference" schedule. Annual schedules like this would be a return to the 1960's and Ralph Miller teams.

Yeah. I'm sure HC3G would like a schedule like that, but it takes two to tango.

[AZ Shocker]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1084[/ATTACH]

Here is the effect on each conference RPI with the addition of WSU. This is using projected EOY RPI from http://www.rpiforecast.com/index2.html

So the answer is yes they would be rated higher and in general it would help those conferences maybe jump 1 slot. What I found interesting is how bad the MVC is without WSU. The MVC is equal to a Sun Belt/Summit/Horizon (16-18 ranked conference) without WSU this year.

Thank you SBShock!!! Great chart and analysis!!!

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

When you look at it through a shorter term lens - which is fundamentally how the game is viewed by recruits who have no idea who Penny Hardaway is - Memphis is a program that should be trying to emulate US.

you sorely underestimate this generation and many others when it comes to this...

Primarily because of this... http://www.kicksonfire.com/category/...-penny/#page-2

And other reasons.. well thats another thread for another time..

[Good News]

Well you have missed that they are ranked 17th with just one loss and are a perennial top 25 team in spite of that record. And they did play for an NC under Calipari, so yes they belong in the conversation.

Their long term record of accomplishment before Calipari also exceeds that of WSUs, so the residual build up over the years puts them in that category, yes.

Looking it at it from a short term lense doesn't quality anyone for elite status.

Tournament History:
ESPN Stats and Information Department ranked Memphis as the 19th most successful basketball program from 1962 to 2012 in their annual 50 in 50 list.


Final Fours 3
Tournament Record 33-25
Championship Seasons None
Tournament Appearances 25
1955, 1956, 1962, 1973, 1976, 1982*, 1983*, 1984*, 1985*, 1986*, 1988, 1989, 1992, 1993, 1995, 1996, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008*, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013

More detail at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memphis_Tigers_men's_basketball

Been traveling for the holidays and haven't had time to respond. Let me clarify since something obviously got missed:

Unequivocally and without question, Memphis is an elite program within the context of the last 50 years. I would absolutely agree with a goal for WSU to be regarded in that way 50 years from now.

My point was that Memphis is an overrated non-elite program with an overrated non-elite coach, and Wichita State performing at the current level under Pastner isn't enough to get the Shocks to that elite-level designation a few decades from now. That assertion is best measured by the fact that Memphis under Pastner just got their first win against a ranked opponent in five years, coming off a national championship appearance.

[Good News]

you sorely underestimate this generation and many others when it comes to this...

Primarily because of this... http://www.kicksonfire.com/category/...-penny/#page-2

And other reasons.. well thats another thread for another time..

Interesting website. My comments about the "shorter term lens" were based on a few comments I've heard from people in the last few years that are involved with D1 recruits from the low-major level all the way up to 5 star level. The general consensus seemed to be that while kids in the past may have been affected by a sense of history, the current generation tends to be more about "who's hot now". I'm not complaining - I think it works in our favor.

[rrshock]

I think something else that could be added to this discussion would be to have players mentioned, on a consistent basis, as being the top or close to the top at their positions. We are fortunate to have this now and hope that we can continue to see it.

[shocktown]

This is an interesting read. The author of this thread, who came onboard Shockernet at the height of loading up of the bandwagon, had some ideas about how to make the Shockers a perennial national power. He appeared to think everything was going in the right direction and had some good observations on how to keep things going. HCGM, at the time, had the same coarse style he has now in interviews, post game shows and coaches shows. So what changed, well, the bandwagon hit a few bumps and when that happens people who only got on for the good times tend to lose their grip and fall off when the road gets a little rough.

[ShockerFever]

This is an interesting read. The author of this thread, who came onboard Shockernet at the height of loading up of the bandwagon, had some ideas about how to make the Shockers a perennial national power. He appeared to think everything was going in the right direction and had some good observations on how to keep things going. HCGM, at the time, had the same coarse style he has now in interviews, post game shows and coaches shows. So what changed, well, the bandwagon hit a few bumps and when that happens people who only got on for the good times tend to lose their grip and fall off when the road gets a little rough.

Ownage

[Shock Top]

[Shocker1976]

This is an interesting read. The author of this thread, who came onboard Shockernet at the height of loading up of the bandwagon, had some ideas about how to make the Shockers a perennial national power. He appeared to think everything was going in the right direction and had some good observations on how to keep things going. HCGM, at the time, had the same coarse style he has now in interviews, post game shows and coaches shows. So what changed, well, the bandwagon hit a few bumps and when that happens people who only got on for the good times tend to lose their grip and fall off when the road gets a little rough.

Returned to the States from Europe and only took me six years to get my fill of Marshall - leaving the Valley of Mediocrity was for me enlightening. Kelvin says hi to Marshall.

[Shock Top]

Imagine if after Moses lead the Israelites across the Red Sea, they just told him: "Thanks, but we've got it from here."

[molly jabali]

This is an interesting read. The author of this thread, who came onboard Shockernet at the height of loading up of the bandwagon, had some ideas about how to make the Shockers a perennial national power. He appeared to think everything was going in the right direction and had some good observations on how to keep things going. HCGM, at the time, had the same coarse style he has now in interviews, post game shows and coaches shows. So what changed, well, the bandwagon hit a few bumps and when that happens people who only got on for the good times tend to lose their grip and fall off when the road gets a little rough.

How did you even find this??????????????????????????:)