2013 Sears ESPN Bracketbuster Game

[ShockTalk]

Look. In a more pure form, the BB would be great. However, since the 6 BCS conferences don't "qualify", the MWC, Atl-10, and C-USA don't believe they need it, the WAC is a shambles, Gonzaga and BYU from the WCC won't play, and Butler is gone from the Horizon, you are left with teams from the #15 and below conferences, along with a very few left over quality teams from better conferences, to play the top 3-4 teams from the MVC. And that assumes ESPN matches it up that way (don't hold your breath) and the home team-away team works in your favor.

Biggest arguement: I don't believe that we cannot schedule home / homes with any of the teams that remain available in the BB.

[WuShock Reaper]

Okay, let's do another comparison. The MVC-MWC Challenge versus the Bracketbusters.

Bracketbusters has been around for 10 years (WSU was not invited the first year) and WSU has an average RPI of 72 and our opponents have an average RPI of 60. So we have benefited on average about 12 RPI points. Also we were on the ESPN network eight out of the nine years.

MVC-MWC four years of games with a WSU average RPI 63 versus the MWC Opponent of Average RPI 109. So we have gotten worse opponents by about 47 RPI points. Also, I don’t believe we have gotten any national TV exposure from these games.

So this is the last year of the MVC-MWC Challenge and if Bracketbusters was to vanish that would be three more games we would have to find for our schedule. You tell me where these games would come from, as I believe these quality of teams are just not to be found? I looked over the last few seasons and I didn’t see WSU getting any home-and-home great games, with the exception of LSU (they are not a great team but at least they were a BCS School) and we had to play them twice in Louisiana and it took five years to play 3 games. Wow, one team over the last five years we were able to schedule on our own.

[WuShock Reaper]

P.S. I almost forgot. Last season we had such great success scheduling teams we got...well better to just show you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg-naIKPU3Y&feature=related

[SubGod22]

The games can be had. I think too many worry about starting a series at home that it derails the process of setting up positive series.

The big problem with the MVC/MWC challenge is there were no repeat games allowed. The first game of the series we'd already scheduled ourselves with TCU (not a great team). This year, we pretty much get screwed because we can't play one of the better teams we've already played.

And the RPI average on our return games plummets. I'm not going to look it up, but we seem to mostly get matched up with teams that are full of Seniors and at their peak, so the next time we play them they aren't very good.

And we could definitely schedule some solid series if we were willing to start on the road. I think that's probably what holds back the schedules we could have. Either that, or they simply aim too high and let other solid games fall through while trying to get the others.

I don't know how long the BB contract runs, but I'll be surprised if it actually makes it that far. It's falling apart and has little value left. I know a couple of MVC schools have already looked into not participating only to be told by ESPN that if we do that, they won't show any of our other games. I'll be happy if CBS, NBC or Fox step up to the plate and try to compete with ESPN. Won't happen over night, but one of those stations could grow to the point where ESPN no longer wields such overwhelming power.

[Capitol Shock II]

Lame. Punt. Punch out. Hit the eject button. We are much too good for this event. Do we want to be the best of the crap or best of the best? We are lowering our standards in this event, not raising them.

[WuShock Reaper]

Here are all of the teams we have been able to schedule, excluding Multiple Team Events (MTE’s), Bracketbusters, and the MVC-MWC Challenge and their respective prior season RPI’s over the last six years. I previously had mentioned that LSU was our best get, but in actuality Texas Tech was the best BCS school that we were able to get a home-and-home.

Teams
Southern Mississippi - #26, UAB - #37, Tulsa - #69, Texas Tech - #78, Tulsa - #84, North Dakota State - #86, LSU - #89, Tennessee - #90, Texas Tech - #119, Tulsa - #121, Wyoming - #122, UAB - #133, Charleston Southern - #163, TCU - #202, Gardner-Webb - #203, UMBC - #215, LSU - #223, Texas Southern - #227, North Carolina Central - #231, Texas-Arlington - #253, Florida A&M - #255, UMKC - #256, South Carolina Upstate - #258, Northern Colorado - #264, Arkansas-Pine Bluff - #269, Nicholls State - #277, Centenary - #281, UMKC - #281, UMKC - #288, Cal State – Fullerton - #304, UMKC - #309, Fairleigh Dickinson - #314, Texas Southern - #323, Alabama A & M - #331, Chicago State - #339, Alcorn State - #342, Chicago State - #347, Newman University - #D2, North Dakota - #D2.

Commentary:
Without the MTE’s, Bracketbusters, and the MVC-MWC Challenge our chances for an at-large selection would be toast. So until someone can give me concrete, irrefutable, money-in-the-bank evidence that we can schedule better than our historical record indicates, I am sticking with “ESPN Bracketbusters”.

[SubGod22]

You're right. Lets keep participating in this piece of ****. There's no way in hell we could schedule most of the games we've had. To be honest, teams like Austin Peay, Davidson, Cleveland State and Appy State would be buy games for us. Instead, we're playing H/H with them and most of the time the game does nothing for us. By all means though, lets continue this instead of focusing on getting H/H series with good teams. Consistently good teams. It can be done as others have shown. We just have to be willing to get off our asses and go on the road from time to time.

[ShockTalk]

Here are all of the teams we have been able to schedule, excluding Multiple Team Events (MTE’s), Bracketbusters, and the MVC-MWC Challenge and their respective prior season RPI’s over the last six years. I previously had mentioned that LSU was our best get, but in actuality Texas Tech was the best BCS school that we were able to get a home-and-home.

Teams
Southern Mississippi - #26, UAB - #37, Tulsa - #69, Texas Tech - #78, Tulsa - #84, North Dakota State - #86, LSU - #89, Tennessee - #90, Texas Tech - #119, Tulsa - #121, Wyoming - #122, UAB - #133, Charleston Southern - #163, TCU - #202, Gardner-Webb - #203, UMBC - #215, LSU - #223, Texas Southern - #227, North Carolina Central - #231, Texas-Arlington - #253, Florida A&M - #255, UMKC - #256, South Carolina Upstate - #258, Northern Colorado - #264, Arkansas-Pine Bluff - #269, Nicholls State - #277, Centenary - #281, UMKC - #281, UMKC - #288, Cal State – Fullerton - #304, UMKC - #309, Fairleigh Dickinson - #314, Texas Southern - #323, Alabama A & M - #331, Chicago State - #339, Alcorn State - #342, Chicago State - #347, Newman University - #D2, North Dakota - #D2.

Commentary:
Without the MTE’s, Bracketbusters, and the MVC-MWC Challenge our chances for an at-large selection would be toast. So until someone can give me concrete, irrefutable, money-in-the-bank evidence that we can schedule better than our historical record indicates, I am sticking with “ESPN Bracketbusters”.

As I said before, who, of the teams now remaining in BB, do you believe we could not get a home/home with, IF, HCGM wanted a h/h with them.

It also has to do with the number of home games WSU is wanting to have. If we can get Southern Miss and UAB to a sweet one and done in our home city, I'm sure there are a good number of quality "mid majors" that would also do h/h. This is a two way street. HCGM also has to want "that level" of a h/h and ADES has to be willing to give up a home game or two.

[wu_shizzle]

If we were too good for this event we would have beat George Mason and VCU when the bright lights were on.

[SubGod22]

If we were too good for this event we would have beat George Mason and VCU when the bright lights were on.

I guess since we've lost to Evansville we're not good enough for it so we should get out.

That kind of logic...

[ShockTalk]

If we were too good for this event we would have beat George Mason and VCU when the bright lights were on.

And one is voluntarily no longer playing BB games and the other somewhat voluntarily no longer playing them.

[WuShock Reaper]

@ShockTalk - "HCGM also has to want "that level" of a h/h and ADES has to be willing to give up a home game or two."

@SubGod22 - "We just have to be willing to get off our asses and go on the road from time to time."

Well at least we are getting some definitive facts regarding why WSU has failed to get better schedules. Coach Marshall and ADES are both lazy and “unwilling” to schedule better opposition. I’ll let them know on the first Coach Marshall Show of the season.

[ShockTalk]

@ShockTalk - "HCGM also has to want "that level" of a h/h and ADES has to be willing to give up a home game or two."

@SubGod22 - "We just have to be willing to get off our asses and go on the road from time to time."

Well at least we are getting some definitive facts regarding why WSU has failed to get better schedules. Coach Marshall and ADES are both lazy and “unwilling” to schedule better opposition. I’ll let them know on the first Coach Marshall Show of the season.

If you don't understand what is being said, certainly do not put other words into someone's mouth. HCGM may not be unlike most successful D-I coaches. For the same reasons we find it hard to get teams equal or better than we are to play h/h, HCGM would legitimately hesitate to play h/h against those teams he feels of equal, but in particularly, lesser stature. It's a calculated decision on what one feels is the best way to succeed nationally with the least amount of risk. ADES has obligations to the fans and donors. Do we have fewer home games and risk losing on the road or stay the course? Both have there risks in basketball stature and dollars. They get paid the big bucks to make those decisions and I'm more than willing to back what Marshall wants.

All I'm saying is that the best BB games that are now left to play are also games I feel we could schedule h/h for if the BB went away and if HCGM wanted those games. Difference is, we select the teams and the times we want to play, not during the end of a potentially heated conference race.

Sub can speak for himself, but I believe we think somewhat alike on the issue of non-con road games, the "Gonzaga approach" if you will. It is a high risk, high potential reward approach, but if you do well, it will do wonders for your program. As fans, we have the luxury of playing war games. Truth is, if I was in Marshall's shoes, I may not do those things I'm now talking about. Just don't know.

What I do know is that the other top non-BCS conferences, of which we compare ourselves to, did not feel, or no longer feel, the need to be a part of the BB as well as some of the top teams from conferences that do participate. Why?? Wouldn't they have the same scheduling problems? Wouldn't the reasons some give to be in the BB be a plus for these conferences as well? Why is the MVC the only top non-BCS still in the BB?

[ShockerPhi]

This seems to be getting a little heated and unfriendly.

So here's a kitten in a cast:
kitten-in-cast.jpg

[ShockTalk]

It appears I got no takers to answer my 4 questions in the final paragraph of my last post here. I guess one must assume that the answer is that the Valley is so much more wise than all of it's counterpart conferences.

Let's try this one: Name the top 5 (or 10) non-BCS, non-Valley teams, you want WSU to be compared to. I'll give you mine: Xavier, Gonzaga, UNLV, New Mexico, BYU, San Diego State, VCU, Butler, George Mason, and, though it pains me, Memphis. How many of these teams have never competed in the BB and how many no longer do? Why? They don't need to. They have either long term or recent history of continued success winning regular season championships, conference championships, key regular season wins, continued NCAA appearances, and/or 1 or more good runs in the Dance. We have all those same opportunities available to us with or without the BB.

By the way, I understand that WSU will probably be in the BB for as long as the MVC wants it that way or the BB dies. Nevertheless, the problem in continuing to be in the BB is who the media and outside fans (and possibly those 4/5 star recruits) compare you to. Much less successful conferences and small-time conferences. They are lead by the likes of the Davidson, Murray St, Belmont, and Oral Roberts who also dominate their respective conferences or flash-in-the-pans if not them. The risk/reward for the Valley teams is not favorable. You win, they say you should have....the Valley is the big fish in the little pond. You lose.....well that's just not going to look good in the papers at all.