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  • Surprised and disappointed…

    In the state of the basketball program less than 2 years removed from a Sweet 16. First, let me be clear that this has nothing to do with CGM; rather, this is as you can guess a rant on MT.

    Listen we all knew that MT would move on someday and I have no problem with him taking the TAMU job. Trying to objectively look at the situation it made sense and came as close to fitting his criteria for moving on as he was ever going to find.

    What I take major issue with is the state of the program with which he left us and CGM. WE GOT ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OUT OF THE SWEET 16. How many times did we hear MT warn that recruiting lags a couple years behind championships? Taking a look back it was almost as if MT was foreshadowing his dismal recruiting efforts/abilities and I don’t buy this 2-year lag hogwash. A skillful recruiter would have immediately cashed in on the goodwill all along the recruiting trail.

    I mean how many of us would have believed we’d be staring at a Thursday play-in game just less than 2 years removed from S16? It’s simply unfathomable.

    Bottom line I thought the program had reached the point that when MT left (and it was not a matter of if but when) that we were on solid ground and all the pieces where there for a good coach to pick up where MT left off…I just never imagined the point at which the handoff would take place. I at least envisioned something along the lines of what TJ inherited in Normal.

    Even at the time of his departure I believed in MT. Now I am utterly disappointed that he didn’t leave this place in better shape. I thought he was better than that.


    So it is what it is at this point – a complete rebuild of the roster – and I certainly have the utmost faith in our leadership to deal with the aftermath of the mess we find ourselves in; it’s just going to take some time; probably more than any of us ever imagined heading into the season.

  • #2
    That Turg left the cupboard bare....

    Lets go player by player...some coaches would love to have the cupboard bare like Turg allegelly left it..

    PJ Couis-Preseason all everything--now slumping biiig time

    MBrauer-started last year, solid leader

    Mekel-6th man last year and back up point guard

    JT Durley-If he doesnt slump he should make all MVC frosh first team

    Thomasson-averaging 14points a game and is a solid post man

    Hatch-Can shoot it
    ok that is 6 decent...not great but decent players...

    I would be more concerned about the Marshall recruits--griskenas and ellis...

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    • #3
      I try not to pile on Turgeon because the situation, even as it exists now, has been a lot worse. However, the more I think about it the more annoyed I get about the state of the program after Turgeon left.

      The Sweet 16 run was two years ago and I can only think of three current players that played on that team: PJ, MB and Preadom. I suspect his recruiting was weak before the Sweet 16 run. To be fair, it might be interesting to run down Turgeon's recruiting classes going back like four years. I would include in that the class he expected to sign for this year – so include players like Sampay, Bowles & Baker. His incoming class for this year looked good on paper.

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      • #4
        Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..........

        A roster with no post player and no backup point guard? Basically no junior or sophomore class? Looks a bit bare to me. PT is a 4, not a 5.

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        • #5
          anything other than a guard is a post player

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          • #6
            Theeeee flag is up..................and awayyyyy they go........

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            • #7
              Where ever this thread goes (again) can we at least agree that the program, as an entity and separate from the team, is on solid ground and even go so far as to say that it's in better shape than it has EVER been?


              I think we can.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by pinstripers
                Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..........

                A roster with no post player and no backup point guard? Basically no junior or sophomore class? Looks a bit bare to me. PT is a 4, not a 5.
                In all fairness, Turgeon would have brought in Sampay and Bowles – both post players. I do not remember if Baker played any point but if memory serves, he was more of a combo guard.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Maggie
                  I try not to pile on Turgeon because the situation, even as it exists now, has been a lot worse. However, the more I think about it the more annoyed I get about the state of the program after Turgeon left.

                  The Sweet 16 run was two years ago and I can only think of three current players that played on that team: PJ, MB, and Preadom. I suspect his recruiting was weak before the Sweet 16 run. To be fair, it might be interesting to run down Turgeon's recruiting classes going back like four years. I would include in that the class he expected to sign for this year – so include players like Sampay, Bowles & Baker. His incoming class for this year looked good on paper.
                  It pretty easy to review MT's players from the last four recruiting classes that are with us for this season. PJ, MB, Preadom, PT and Gal are the only ones starting the season with any experience. A pretty sad state of affairs. Then there are last year's redshirts Durley and Butler. If MT stayed, Butler probably would not be here this year. Most of us think Sampay is a bust for the Redbirds. Bowles is not getting anytime time at a&m but probably would of for us. I doubt he would be setting the world on fire this season. Baker is scoring about 11 a game at that funny named school he went to. To give MT a little break, he would of probably signed Tristan Thompson who went to North Texas since Turg left WSU. Last time I checked Tristan was around 10 points a game.

                  Edit- RC is really a Turg recruit also.
                  In the fast lane

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by WuDrWu
                    Where ever this thread goes (again) can we at least agree that the program, as an entity and separate from the team, is on solid ground and even go so far as to say that it's in better shape than it has EVER been?


                    I think we can.
                    That is why I do not like to gang up on Turgeon too much. I'm not sure I would state that the program is in the best shape of its entire existence. However, it has not looked better for over 20 years.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lawmaker
                      That Turg left the cupboard bare....

                      Lets go player by player...some coaches would love to have the cupboard bare like Turg allegelly left it..

                      PJ Couis-Preseason all everything--now slumping biiig time

                      MBrauer-started last year, solid leader

                      Mekel-6th man last year and back up point guard

                      JT Durley-If he doesnt slump he should make all MVC frosh first team

                      Thomasson-averaging 14points a game and is a solid post man

                      Hatch-Can shoot it
                      ok that is 6 decent...not great but decent players...

                      I would be more concerned about the Marshall recruits--griskenas and ellis...

                      Let's go comment by comment and refute about 99% of what you say.


                      PJ has never been all everything. Many fans assumed he would take over that role. But PJ is what he is and nothing more. An undersized 3-4 that is a below average shooter (always has been) who is a hard worker and is a great complimentary player. A star he is not and I'll be the 1st to say 'guilty' of expecting more out of him.

                      Matt - Solid, yes and the only thing you do about the injury is nothing except prepare for it with proper backups. As far as any reference to the sweet 16 please look back at that tournament and witness how overmatched he was. Matt was rarely in the game when it mattered.

                      Mekel- No complaints from me about his performance as a Soph. He, however, was not a backup pg and is not now. He is playing out of position by neccessity....I know.....you know it.

                      JT - I cannot remember an All Frosh player that refused to play defense to the extent that JT does. We get murdered when he is on the floor and I don't care how many points he scores.

                      Phil - no complaints here. Phil has been solid.

                      Hatch - you are kidding, right? So I am a good shooter too. He is way overmatched. He is playing because others are not.


                      Certainly Mantas and Ellis have been frustrating (to the fans at least) but I am not certain that anyone expected a freshman to carry the team so after 15 games I think the jury might still be out there. I'll give you Mantas, if it makes you feel better. I still contend that the young man is skilled and should be preforming at a higher level it is a total mystery why he is not.

                      As usual, half truths and prodding to get a rise out of people and very little factual information.


                      :goshocks: osterwu: osterwsu:

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                      • #12
                        And still no productive big man after Gene and Brent recruited Paul Miller for Turg.

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                        • #13
                          Zamal Nixon was been pretty decent down in Houston.

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                          • #14
                            Bowles wasn't going to come to WSU even if Turgeon was here. So we'd have Sampay....

                            Turg definitely disappointed with how he failed to capitalize on the S16. Cooz, Matt, Phil and Gal are the only real contributors. Durley could be eventually if he gets a work ethic. There were some guys who may have come here that looked like they could have helped. But considering the SO and JR classes really lack much of anything.....
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                            • #15
                              The more I think about this more aggravated I get.

                              First, ISASO is correct and I assume he means no productive center when he referenced "big man". That is a big problem.

                              Second, I do not follow the recruits as well as tropicalshox but his point about returning players with D-1 experience is also correct. However, I would not be so quick to call Sampay a bust and I think Bowles would have been a good player for WSU. Light the world on fire as a freshman, probably not. I see Bowles in the same light as I see Ellis – they just have different skill sets.

                              Third, if Bowles really was going to back out whether nor not Turgeon left. That would have killed his recruiting class.

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