Who should be Wichita State's Head Coach?

[SubGod22]

On top of all of that, you'd be terminating in the middle of the spring signing period. Assuming you could have a new coach hired within a couple of days, he'd have about a week to fill out his staff and build a roster.

If we were waiting until next year and if we could come to some sort of agreement where he were paid through May 1 so that he would accept less of a buyout (big if), and we could hire someone before May 1 and give him more time to build his staff and roster and try and keep current players on board, it might work. But would IB agree to essentially be fired before that contractually guaranteed date and accept the lesser buyout? IB is a good guy, but I'm not sure if he'd do that and give up something around 1.5M in the process.

So at this point, moving on from IB after this season or after next is really going to cost you the same amount. Waiting would essentially still cost you more because ticket sales will go down more. Complacency will rise. And if you have to wait until after May 1, you're options for great hire diminish and the chance for him to build a team is almost taken away from him that first year.

How many good recruits would still be left with a week or so remaining in the signing period? I know kids can enroll and receive their financial aid package and become a part of the program after that date, but that's not generally the best way to build a program.

[Stickboy46]

On top of all of that, you'd be terminating in the middle of the spring signing period. Assuming you could have a new coach hired within a couple of days, he'd have about a week to fill out his staff and build a roster.

If we were waiting until next year and if we could come to some sort of agreement where he were paid through May 1 so that he would accept less of a buyout (big if), and we could hire someone before May 1 and give him more time to build his staff and roster and try and keep current players on board, it might work. But would IB agree to essentially be fired before that contractually guaranteed date and accept the lesser buyout? IB is a good guy, but I'm not sure if he'd do that and give up something around 1.5M in the process.

So at this point, moving on from IB after this season or after next is really going to cost you the same amount. Waiting would essentially still cost you more because ticket sales will go down more. Complacency will rise. And if you have to wait until after May 1, you're options for great hire diminish and the chance for him to build a team is almost taken away from him that first year.

How many good recruits would still be left with a week or so remaining in the signing period? I know kids can enroll and receive their financial aid package and become a part of the program after that date, but that's not generally the best way to build a program.

Agreed .. the ONLY reason you keep IB this year is because you feel he can turn it around and be the long term solution. If you don't see that happening, firing him this year is the way to go (assuming there is enough money available to you know .. actually fire him and hire a new coach)

[TrackSuitAndTie]

WSU isn't the only fanbase that is fed up with ****man

[Shock Top]

I think Adrian Griffin could be Penny 2.0. Maybe not get as heavy of hitters as recruits, but he would definitely bring a MUCH better coaching background to his first HC job.

He could build a staff of great basketball minds to help him get through the choppy waters as he evolves into the HC role. I know most might not want another first-time HC, but IMO, this is a much different situation than the IB one was.

As others have mentioned, recruitment and retention is huge in todays game. I think someone with NBA experience and connections is valuable today more than it ever has been in the past.

I get the risk/reword factor is there, but unless you are going to go for a Chris Beard or a Rick Pitino, the ceiling wouldn't get much higher than it would with Adrain Griffin.

[Dan]

Griffin makes me nervous because he's never had to recruit. Penny was recruiting local talent for his AAU teams for many years. He was tapped into high school hoops at a very high level. He was also a state hero in Tennessee. There really are not a lot of similarities in their backgrounds other than they both played in the NBA, and Penny was a star while Griffin was a solid role player.

[AndShock]

Turgeon > Penny

[Shock Top]

Griffin makes me nervous because he's never had to recruit. Penny was recruiting local talent for his AAU teams for many years. He was tapped into high school hoops at a very high level. He was also a state hero in Tennessee. There really are not a lot of similarities in their backgrounds other than they both played in the NBA, and Penny was a star while Griffin was a solid role player.

You forgot to mention AG is VERY respected in the NBA world as a coach and person.

You don't think NBA coaches and organizations are tapped into who the top young talent in their sport is?

No need to dunk on his success as a player. Otherwise, we never would have hired Gregg Marshall.

[TrackSuitAndTie]

Nick Nurse recently missed a game due to personal reasons and Adrian Griffin took on the HC role for the game. This is the second time AG has filled in as HC with the Raptors which clearly indicates he is trusted by the organization and primed for the top job, wherever that may be.

Adjusting to the college game and recruiting are definitely concerns, but AG has been the lead Assistant Coach for three different NBA teams (Orlando, OKC, Toronto). The man definitely knows his way around a whiteboard.

[SubGod22]

Nick Nurse recently missed a game due to personal reasons and Adrian Griffin took on the HC role for the game. This is the second time AG has filled in as HC with the Raptors which clearly indicates he is trusted by the organization and primed for the top job, wherever that may be.

Adjusting to the college game and recruiting are definitely concerns, but AG has been the lead Assistant Coach for three different NBA teams (Orlando, OKC, Toronto). The man definitely knows his way around a whiteboard.

And I understand that he has played a big role in the development of players with the Raptors and their G League squad. I know I've seen it mentioned how important Toronto sees him in that regard as well.

[Kel Varnsen]

Nothing wrong with liking Adrian Griffin. He seems like he does a great job for the Raptors.

But would he be a candidate in our minds if he wasn't from Wichita? There are guys like him on many NBA teams, but very few (if any) of them are looked at for college jobs, particularly a job where the infrastructure as it currently exists might not be in place as much.

I think that's how we could get in trouble, but I also doubt that's the direction we would go in regardless. I don't see that idea gaining as much traction with some of the powers that be.

For me, you have to give a few guys a call:
Grant McCasland - beat us at our place last year, UNT has been pretty consistent
Ryan Odom - UMBC coach who beat UVA, now coaching Utah St. who is 37th in KenPom
Darian DeVries - has done a good job with pretty limited resources at Drake, in KenPom Top 100 for the last three seasons
Pat Kelsey - was at Winthrop, now at Charleston - like May, he might need another season to prove himself, but Charleston is good this season
Bob Richey - yes, I know it pains me to say it too, but he's finished inside the top 100 of KenPom every season at Furman
Brian Wardle - has taken him a while to get going, but he was eventually successful at Green Bay and has now been successful at Bradley

Maybe even this guy who's doing well at Utah Valley of all places (81st in KenPom):



I'd be hesitant to say it's a guarantee that one of these guys is hired, but I think it's safe to say that the following conditions exist for WSU compared to their current schools.

Better resources
Better fan support
Better tradition (Bradley might if you're talking pre-modern era but no one cares at this point)
Better conference
Better exposure

It would be hard to argue with that, and I would be surprised if we veer too far from the criteria that exists with the seven above coaches, if not hire one of them. They are:

Successful at building programs
Successful at recruiting players good enough without the cache of a big name
Successful with strong regular seasons and/or strong postseasons
Don't depend on one good recruiting class to carry them

That's exactly what we got with Marshall and Turgeon, and while Marshall's success will likely not be replicated, those factors will lead to a better outcome than:

Having an existing connection to Wichita
Being a players' coach
Being available
Being a nice guy
Bringing one or two players in or keeping one or two players around
NBA connections - I don't think they help unless you're already a really good head coach

Marshall and Turgeon came with none of those qualities, although they kept some of the players around, partially due to no transfer portal madness at the time.

But I would put money that it would be one of those coaches I listed, not that I'm going out on a limb with seven coaches.

[SubGod22]

Griffin is a candidate in our minds because he mentioned his interest in the job back when it was allegedly open. Maybe his interest is because he's from Wichita, but I'd be interested in him regardless of where he was from. Other than having never coached at the college level, he checks pretty much every box for me.

[Kel Varnsen]

Griffin is a candidate in our minds because he mentioned his interest in the job back when it was allegedly open. Maybe his interest is because he's from Wichita, but I'd be interested in him regardless of where he was from. Other than having never coached at the college level, he checks pretty much every box for me.

Yeah, we'll agree to disagree there, mainly because of your first sentence. His interest in the job (as a result of being from Wichita) is not that relevant to me.

He could be a good option, I don't know. He just doesn't fit the criteria that generally makes a college basketball coach successful.

[molly jabali]

WSU isn't the only fanbase that is fed up with ****man

Do i think Penny is elite? Not really....but Doc Holiday is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)

[ShockTalk]

Nothing wrong with liking Adrian Griffin. He seems like he does a great job for the Raptors.

But would he be a candidate in our minds if he wasn't from Wichita? There are guys like him on many NBA teams, but very few (if any) of them are looked at for college jobs, particularly a job where the infrastructure as it currently exists might not be in place as much.

I think that's how we could get in trouble, but I also doubt that's the direction we would go in regardless. I don't see that idea gaining as much traction with some of the powers that be.

For me, you have to give a few guys a call:
Grant McCasland - beat us at our place last year, UNT has been pretty consistent
Ryan Odom - UMBC coach who beat UVA, now coaching Utah St. who is 37th in KenPom
Darian DeVries - has done a good job with pretty limited resources at Drake, in KenPom Top 100 for the last three seasons
Pat Kelsey - was at Winthrop, now at Charleston - like May, he might need another season to prove himself, but Charleston is good this season
Bob Richey - yes, I know it pains me to say it too, but he's finished inside the top 100 of KenPom every season at Furman
Brian Wardle - has taken him a while to get going, but he was eventually successful at Green Bay and has now been successful at Bradley

Maybe even this guy who's doing well at Utah Valley of all places (81st in KenPom):



I'd be hesitant to say it's a guarantee that one of these guys is hired, but I think it's safe to say that the following conditions exist for WSU compared to their current schools.

Better resources
Better fan support
Better tradition (Bradley might if you're talking pre-modern era but no one cares at this point)
Better conference
Better exposure

It would be hard to argue with that, and I would be surprised if we veer too far from the criteria that exists with the seven above coaches, if not hire one of them. They are:

Successful at building programs
Successful at recruiting players good enough without the cache of a big name
Successful with strong regular seasons and/or strong postseasons
Don't depend on one good recruiting class to carry them

That's exactly what we got with Marshall and Turgeon, and while Marshall's success will likely not be replicated, those factors will lead to a better outcome than:

Having an existing connection to Wichita
Being a players' coach
Being available
Being a nice guy
Bringing one or two players in or keeping one or two players around
NBA connections - I don't think they help unless you're already a really good head coach

Marshall and Turgeon came with none of those qualities, although they kept some of the players around, partially due to no transfer portal madness at the time.

But I would put money that it would be one of those coaches I listed, not that I'm going out on a limb with seven coaches.

Like Wardle, Odom, and Kelsey the least (don't dislike).

DeVries:

The Good: His success at Drake. Tucker likely to follow him. He has held on to his players that he recruited.

The Questions: Tucker likely to follow him? Would he leave the state of Iowa (strong ties)? Is he now waiting for Iowa or Iowa St to call? His success this year (and past) has come with 3 Grad, 2 Seniors, and his son.

Richey:

The Good: His success at Furman.

The Questions: Would he leave the Southeast, particularly South Carolina? Has very strong ties there. I would call Furman and their conference, a step below Drake and MVC.

McCasland:

The Good: Like his experience and total background the best. Probably affordable.

The Questions: Not what I'd call a home run, but probably very close.

[shoxlax]

Really don’t understand why Paul Mills isn’t on your lists. Great personable guy who can recruit his ass off.