Where do we go from here

[Stickboy46]

Here's my concern with the idea of bringing in good assistants. These guys can see what's going on and know kids in the program. If you're an up and comer do you really want to jump on a likely sinking ship? Serious question. I think that getting good coaches to come in and help isn't that easy either. It's a tough spot to be in. Sucks!

Depends on the up and comer. I agree it's not exactly a prime landing spot right now. Though if they are an assistant at a smaller school and think they can help turn it around, it's also a prime opportunity.

From what I've heard, IB was always the "good cop" to Marshalls "bad cop". With IB as the head coach .. it's reasonable to think we might need a fiery assistant to balance things out. Someone that's willing to rip into players (though not 100% in the way Marshall did) to balance out IB's laid back nature.

[Stickboy46]

LOL YOU actually think you are doing something to help the situation. LOL

Jesus ****ing Christ. No i'm not personally going and doing anything of this. It's a ****ing discussion board. Let's discuss what WSU can reasonably do.

[Stickboy46]

I'll never understand why our offense ran through the 3 ball. What a dumb philosophy.

It's like you hire a plumber and let them do your flooring.

It's a catch 22. If you can't hit the 3, they lag off and cram the paint so therefore more of your shots end up being 3s. Which makes it easier to double team Mo ... who also showed no signs of being willing to pass outside of 1 game.

[Ted Lasso's Neighbor]

My personal plan for all this is to start buying PowerBall and Mega Millions lottery tickets on a weekly basis. If I hit the jackpot, I'll be buying out contracts left and right, and will bring back football at the new Ted Lasso's Family and Neighbors stadium.

[Stickboy46]

My personal plan for all this is to start buying PowerBall and Mega Millions lottery tickets on a weekly basis. If I hit the jackpot, I'll be buying out contracts left and right, and will bring back football at the new Ted Lasso's Family and Neighbors stadium.

That's a more reasonable approach than some of the other's proposed here.

[Maizerunner08]

It's a catch 22. If you can't hit the 3, they lag off and cram the paint so therefore more of your shots end up being 3s. Which makes it easier to double team Mo ... who also showed no signs of being willing to pass outside of 1 game.

I hear ya. I just feel like if we're going to die on a hill, die on a hill that doesn't revolve around our weakness. As you said ineffective Mo really hurt us. Maybe our team just wasn't talented enough but I felt like we didn't try to dribble drive off screens as much as I would have liked. We saw glimpses, but not often enough.

I guess in general, just disappointing that our entire staff couldn't think of something more effective than chucking up 20+ 3s every game. If that was really our best offense, we have a huge talent problem across the board.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

I'll never understand why our offense ran through the 3 ball. What a dumb philosophy.

It's like you hire a plumber and let them do your flooring.

I think some of that is a lack of confidence in Mo's ability to see the double/triple and pass out of it. Having a big with BBIQ enough to recognize that and be able to use that to pass back out can create looks for others. Unfortunately, the flip side of that is you have to be able to make those open looks. It was the perfect storm of a low IQ 5 man and shooters not makers. Compound that with an oblivious coaching staff and you have disaster.

[Stickboy46]

I hear ya. I just feel like if we're going to die on a hill, die on a hill that doesn't revolve around our weakness. As you said ineffective Mo really hurt us. Maybe our team just wasn't talented enough but I felt like we didn't try to dribble drive off screens as much as I would have liked. We saw glimpses, but not often enough.

I guess in general, just disappointing that our entire staff couldn't think of something more effective than chucking up 20+ 3s every game. If that was really our best offense, we have a huge talent problem across the board.

Definitely think they could have used Pohto more often .. even as a decoy to open up those lanes. Though .. it's not like we finished layups at a high rate either lol

[Maizerunner08]

Definitely think they could have used Pohto more often .. even as a decoy to open up those lanes. Though .. it's not like we finished layups at a high rate either lol

I'm glad you mentioned missed lay-up. Maybe it's recency bias but I can't recall many (if any) WSU team that missed as many bunnies as we did. I won't name names but I think we all know who some of the main offenders were. To me missed layups show lack of focus or our guys were hearing ghosts and rushed shots. Either way, I'm sure there are some bizarre stats about missed layups for this team.

[CBB_Fan]

I can describe virtually every game we played this season with just a few paragraphs.

At the start of the game, Isaac Brown would likely empathize feeding the ball into the post. We would do that for 5 minutes, where Udeze would get most of his points in the half, but also causing 1-4 TOs. Our offense would consist of Udeze and Pleasant setting screens at the top of the key for Tyson, and rotating the ball around the perimeter so we could attempt an entry pass to Udeze. Occasionally we would neither get a Tyson or Udeze look, and in desperation Dexter would take a 3. During that time, the other team would likely get a few drives to the rim around Tyson, leading to Udeze fouls or occasionally an open 3PT shot. In bad games, they would get an early lead off TOs and these defensive breakdowns. In good games, Udeze and Tyson would hit and we'd get an early lead.

Then we'd bring in the bench, and sometime in the next 15 minutes our offense would totally and completely stall. For the first few minutes of this, we would aimless rotate the ball around the perimeter before realizing that entry passes to Udeze weren't possible because either he wasn't in or the defense had adjusted. Then we would slow down our rotations. Then we would shoot 3s early in the shotclock. This would last somewhere between 4 and 8 minutes, during which time we would score virtually nothing at all. Eventually, either Porter or RCIV would make the correct call that the offense was laughably bad and just drive to rim, ending the drought.

In the second half, we'd repeat this. 5 minutes of Udeze entry passes and Tyson 3s. 4-8 minutes of no offensive game plan whatsoever. Finish with Porter and RCIV iso-ball.

The fact that I could be talking about any number of games shows just how bad the coaching was. No adjustments were made throughout the season to change this, and we had the same game plan against Houston as we did against ECU. The only thing we could think of doing all season long was entry passes, greenlighting Tyson, and letting Porter and RCIV play 1v1. And honestly, it is a little telling that the last arguably had the most success and may have been more about those bucking the system than following coaching.

It was truly, incredibly, unbelievably bad coaching for this level. It showed no sign of understanding the elements of a basic offensive set. It didn't change based on opponents. It didn't develop new tricks as the season went on. And it certainly didn't enforce good habits or drive out bad ones. Combine this with having no effective plays in special circumstances and poor execution. It reflects incredibly poorly on the coaching.

And the kicker is, we already knew we had bad shooting. Last year we worked far harder for good shots and still struggled to make them. This year, we had long periods of basically not working for a good shot and just alternating between turning the ball over and shooting the first deep three without a defender within 5 five feet, even unassisted and 2 seconds after getting the ball past half court. Our mechanics got worse so our shooters were even more screwed, and our game plan literally wasn't capable of producing the type of shot our shooters could nail at replacement levels.

[SB Shock]

Coaching is not the biggest problem with this team unless you really mean specifically "THE COACH".

The biggest problem I see is WSU recruiting. Good programs bring in good players (who when given an open look just destroy you), who through synergy (playing hard, playing together unselfishly, coachable attitude, etc) their sum as a whole is greater than their parts. There is no synergy on this team. I actually expect to find out there is something going on in the background that has been ignored by the media.

WSU has for too many seasons where they have had to remake this team with damaged goods, the castoffs from Christmas Island. You can get away with it occasionally, but not year after year.

WSU in terms of age of team is considered un-experienced but is above average in returned minutes. So maybe you could see some positivity if there are no defections and HCIB can actually bring in guys who fix some of the holes in this team, maybe the narrative can be reversed.

Here is what I'm going to be looking for:

1. Who is coming back. If most or all come back then that will be a vote of confidence for HCIB. If not, then why not?

2. The redshirts are unknown - do they transfer? Do they have any skillsets to fill some of the holes? They potentially have the biggest impact of turning the trajectory around because they know the system.

3. Who is WSU bringing in for next year? D2 players, low-quality Juco guys, and 2-star recruits won't be changing anything.

4. Was there cancer on this team that destroyed the chemistry and thus their synergy?

Looking at who WSU is pursuing recruiting-wise for the 2022-23 season, it does look like HCIB already booked a trip to Christmas Island. I expect after the defections will mean that if you didn't like this season, just wait. That is my fear. But my hope that the cancer can be removed, and a redshirt or two actually plug a couple big holes.

[Stickboy46]

I can describe virtually every game we played this season with just a few paragraphs.

At the start of the game, Isaac Brown would likely empathize feeding the ball into the post. We would do that for 5 minutes, where Udeze would get most of his points in the half, but also causing 1-4 TOs. Our offense would consist of Udeze and Pleasant setting screens at the top of the key for Tyson, and rotating the ball around the perimeter so we could attempt an entry pass to Udeze. Occasionally we would neither get a Tyson or Udeze look, and in desperation Dexter would take a 3. During that time, the other team would likely get a few drives to the rim around Tyson, leading to Udeze fouls or occasionally an open 3PT shot. In bad games, they would get an early lead off TOs and these defensive breakdowns. In good games, Udeze and Tyson would hit and we'd get an early lead.

Then we'd bring in the bench, and sometime in the next 15 minutes our offense would totally and completely stall. For the first few minutes of this, we would aimless rotate the ball around the perimeter before realizing that entry passes to Udeze weren't possible because either he wasn't in or the defense had adjusted. Then we would slow down our rotations. Then we would shoot 3s early in the shotclock. This would last somewhere between 4 and 8 minutes, during which time we would score virtually nothing at all. Eventually, either Porter or RCIV would make the correct call that the offense was laughably bad and just drive to rim, ending the drought.

In the second half, we'd repeat this. 5 minutes of Udeze entry passes and Tyson 3s. 4-8 minutes of no offensive game plan whatsoever. Finish with Porter and RCIV iso-ball.

The fact that I could be talking about any number of games shows just how bad the coaching was. No adjustments were made throughout the season to change this, and we had the same game plan against Houston as we did against ECU. The only thing we could think of doing all season long was entry passes, greenlighting Tyson, and letting Porter and RCIV play 1v1. And honestly, it is a little telling that the last arguably had the most success and may have been more about those bucking the system than following coaching.

It was truly, incredibly, unbelievably bad coaching for this level. It showed no sign of understanding the elements of a basic offensive set. It didn't change based on opponents. It didn't develop new tricks as the season went on. And it certainly didn't enforce good habits or drive out bad ones. Combine this with having no effective plays in special circumstances and poor execution. It reflects incredibly poorly on the coaching.

And the kicker is, we already knew we had bad shooting. Last year we worked far harder for good shots and still struggled to make them. This year, we had long periods of basically not working for a good shot and just alternating between turning the ball over and shooting the first deep three without a defender within 5 five feet, even unassisted and 2 seconds after getting the ball past half court. Our mechanics got worse so our shooters were even more screwed, and our game plan literally wasn't capable of producing the type of shot our shooters could nail at replacement levels.

Glad you mentioned this part in bold. WTF happened with Tyson's defense this year (well Tyson in general but for sure his defense). So many Olé defenses this year. If they started driving he just lets them get past. Then outside the 3 pt line he'd so often jump like 4 feet to the side, trying to beat the screener, which just opens up a wide open driving lane. Riding and dieing with Etienne was definitely the biggest coaching screw up this year. Yes he's good, but he did so much bad this year too on both sides of the ball.

[SB Shock]

Glad you mentioned this part in bold. WTF happened with Tyson's defense this year (well Tyson in general but for sure his defense). So many Olé defenses this year. If they started driving he just lets them get past. Then outside the 3 pt line he'd so often jump like 4 feet to the side, trying to beat the screener, which just opens up a wide open driving lane. Riding and dieing with Etienne was definitely the biggest coaching screw up this year. Yes he's good, but he did so much bad this year too on both sides of the ball.

Maybe he was told by handlers to protect his body and not risk getting injured.

[NCAABound]

Glad you mentioned this part in bold. WTF happened with Tyson's defense this year (well Tyson in general but for sure his defense). So many Olé defenses this year. If they started driving he just lets them get past. Then outside the 3 pt line he'd so often jump like 4 feet to the side, trying to beat the screener, which just opens up a wide open driving lane. Riding and dieing with Etienne was definitely the biggest coaching screw up this year. Yes he's good, but he did so much bad this year too on both sides of the ball.

My gut instinct on the defense - He thought and/or was told by coach that he is too important to get into foul trouble. So he would just hope there was some help defense to bail him out.

[Maizerunner08]

Coaching is not the biggest problem with this team unless you really mean specifically "THE COACH".

The biggest problem I see is WSU recruiting. Good programs bring in good players (who when given an open look just destroy you), who through synergy (playing hard, playing together unselfishly, coachable attitude, etc) their sum as a whole is greater than their parts. There is no synergy on this team. I actually expect to find out there is something going on in the background that has been ignored by the media.

WSU has for too many seasons where they have had to remake this team with damaged goods, the castoffs from Christmas Island. You can get away with it occasionally, but not year after year.

WSU in terms of age of team is considered un-experienced but is above average in returned minutes. So maybe you could see some positivity if there are no defections and HCIB can actually bring in guys who fix some of the holes in this team, maybe the narrative can be reversed.

Here is what I'm going to be looking for:

1. Who is coming back. If most or all come back then that will be a vote of confidence for HCIB. If not, then why not?

2. The redshirts are unknown - do they transfer? Do they have any skillsets to fill some of the holes? They potentially have the biggest impact of turning the trajectory around because they know the system.

3. Who is WSU bringing in for next year? D2 players, low-quality Juco guys, and 2-star recruits won't be changing anything.

4. Was there cancer on this team that destroyed the chemistry and thus their synergy?

Looking at who WSU is pursuing recruiting-wise for the 2022-23 season, it does look like HCIB already booked a trip to Christmas Island. I expect after the defections will mean that if you didn't like this season, just wait. That is my fear. But my hope that the cancer can be removed, and a redshirt or two actually plug a couple big holes.

With how the current landscape of how players are moving in and out so quickly, I'm starting to think you play redshirt guys unless they are 1000 percent against it. Otherwise, what good is a redshirt guy if he sits a year and then transfers out?