Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Coaches speak about the transfer portal

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by Kung Wu View Post

    But they aren't pro quality. If I am being real, 99% of the kids I have observed at WSU over the past three decades aren't THAT good. They are semi-pro/foreign-pro good, but they weren't even that until they were seniors, for the most part.

    I reject the idea that even 2% of the NCAA players are pro quality _right now_. A larger percent might have pro quality possibility, but that can still be a large chasm to cross for the vast majority of them.

    And just for clarity, I consider a pro someone who can get paid playing long enough to make generational wealth. If you can't do that, you must have something else to fall back on that can provide that level of income. And if you aren't educated, that's going to be very tough.
    Your pretty close. It's 1.6% of college athletes that go pro, or about 3 out of every 200 athletes.
    I just found the conversation interesting and had to see the actual numbers. The thing about this number is that Includes all NCAA sports, where some sports have little to no ability to go pro. Like women's softball, or lacrosse, etc.
    But I think your point holds true.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Kung Wu View Post

      But they aren't pro quality. If I am being real, 99% of the kids I have observed at WSU over the past three decades aren't THAT good. They are semi-pro/foreign-pro good, but they weren't even that until they were seniors, for the most part.

      I reject the idea that even 2% of the NCAA players are pro quality _right now_. A larger percent might have pro quality possibility, but that can still be a large chasm to cross for the vast majority of them.

      And just for clarity, I consider a pro someone who can get paid playing long enough to make generational wealth. If you can't do that, you must have something else to fall back on that can provide that level of income. And if you aren't educated, that's going to be very tough.
      The point is that when you look at how far collegiate sports have diverged from where it started, it's become like a business, not a part of education. Like I said, I would guess the original intent of having sports in college was akin to having Phys Ed courses for students. Then when teams and leagues were formed, it gave students a way to show school spirit by following the team. More and more it has shifted away from athletics being a part of education for students to athletics being a business that uses the image of the school to promote itself.

      At that point, it does start to make you think that it might be more honest to just hire players to represent the school in athletic competition, rather than continue with the premise that they are students. This applies more to the high-profile sports like basketball and football, where more money is involved. Look, I'm not advocating for this. I'm saying it's gotten bad enough, that this might be more honest than what we are currently doing.

      Comment


      • #48
        Question, can NIL agreements be multi-year? Multi-year NIL's could possibly anchor kids to their original school.
        There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by MoValley John View Post
          Question, can NIL agreements be multi-year? Multi-year NIL's could possibly anchor kids to their original school.
          Former football players at Texas formed a nonprofit who take donations then purchase appearances from current players for the duration of their time on the team.
          they use this to get quality player In positions that probably would get little to no nil deals. This year it was to strengthen the offensive line. That is in essence a multi year deal, as long as they stay on the offensive line at Texas regardless of playing time.
          It does not guarantee the kids stay 4 years, just that they get the money while there.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Kel Varnsen View Post

            Billion dollar piece of the pie? Tell me where the NCAA keeps their Scrooge McDuck money bin.

            They are getting a college education for free. Plus top-notch sport-specific training, meals, books, gear, academic support, travel, and exposure that’s worth well over $100k per year if you’re at the elite schools, and approaching that at other D1 basketball schools. Not exactly peanuts.

            If an athlete doesn’t like it they are free to go elsewhere, like overseas or in the G League. There’s a reason why most kids (the majority of whom are African-American) choose college basketball.

            The value in college athletics is primarily because of the schools because the players change every two years. I didn’t become a WSU fan until I attended school at WSU. I don’t cheer for them because of the players. I cheer for the players because I went to the same school they represent.

            The hatred of the NCAA and the collegiate athletics model is a result of blind groupthink that prevents those who embrace it from engaging any of the complex issues in the matter.
            Going to call BS on a lot of this. Most college athletes play at the 250 schools that don't have top notch trainers and nutrition and education and facilities and coaching.

            Many on athletic scholarships most certainly would qualify for financial aid and/or need based scholarships. Now it is true that the revenue sports support non-revenue, particularly women's, sports at many universities.

            For me, the best outcome of all the shake out would be the formation of a farm system, minor leagues, academies in basketball and football similar to what we have in baseball.
            Wichita State, home of the All-Americans.

            Comment


            • #51
              All this NIL is about paying football players. That’s where the money lies, and it’s really about 20 schools that can afford it. Basketball is secondary and probably the sport that will suffer the most because of it. The ironic part is that the whole thing was a started by a former basketball player.

              They sold it as Suzy Soccer Player should be able to make a few thousand over the summer coaching camps in her hometown. It’s a feel good story. You gotta boil it down to and play with emotions and distract the attention away from the real purpose: to get back to having player auctions. That’s what real slavery looks like.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by WuShockFan View Post
                I think you have to go back to the origin of athletics in colleges and why it started to understand where we are. I'm pretty sure athletics were started to be part of the educational experience. It was glorified Phys Ed. A way to get students moving and exercising their bodies. Over time it became about school spirit and following the team. As the educational apparatus grew, college sports became more like a business. We are so far from why it started. It almost makes you think it would be more honest at this point to just drop the whole premise of having them be students and just make them paid professionals representing the school. Not saying I'm advocating for that. I don't know what the answer is. Just that we are very far from the original intent of having sports in college.
                This is exactly where I am. Alabama football still wears crimson, still plays at Bryant-Denny stadium, still called Alabama, but they're pros not students. At least while they're playing.
                Wichita State, home of the All-Americans.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by MoValley John View Post

                  How can you say it doesn't apply to most athletes? Are athletes different from the general population? A tailback can be a plumber. A combo guard can learn to wire a house. They aren't different from anyone else. A player taking the cash, then gettin a job, is in a better financial position than most of those that geaduate high school and go straight to work. They are older, have more world experience, have dealt with unreal high expectations and more. And many of those athletes taking the cash still end their four years with a degree. At the end of the day, athletes that take the check and aren't employable, have only themself to blame.
                  We have 5000 students enrolled in WSU Tech. WSU Tech is where we are producing manufacturing workers, plumbers, air conditioner technicians, and many other various careers. These jobs are very important, and only require a 1 or 2 year certificate. Many of our WSU Tech students may have participated in high school sports. However, none of our Div. 1 baseball, Volleyball, Softball, Track/Field, etc. athletes are enrolled in WSU Tech. They are becoming teachers, engineers, entrepreneurs, and businessman (corporate) which require 4 year careers. Maybe Creighton has athletes who go to a Tech school.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by WuShockFan View Post

                    The point is that when you look at how far collegiate sports have diverged from where it started, it's become like a business, not a part of education. Like I said, I would guess the original intent of having sports in college was akin to having Phys Ed courses for students. Then when teams and leagues were formed, it gave students a way to show school spirit by following the team. More and more it has shifted away from athletics being a part of education for students to athletics being a business that uses the image of the school to promote itself.

                    At that point, it does start to make you think that it might be more honest to just hire players to represent the school in athletic competition, rather than continue with the premise that they are students. This applies more to the high-profile sports like basketball and football, where more money is involved. Look, I'm not advocating for this. I'm saying it's gotten bad enough, that this might be more hone'st than what we are currently doing.
                    There is no doubt that intercollegiate football and football which began in 1870 (football), and late 1880's (basketball) looked different in the beginnings. Wichita was barely a city when they began (with dirt streets, cowboys riding their horse down the street, and hitching the horse to go into the saloon).

                    OTOH, what has happened in the past 10 years is a monumental shift from the modern student athlete of the 1970's or even 10 years ago. Your journey down history gets you nowhere, except to spin the propeller of your airplane, and wheels of your gas powered car that can go 120 mph down the highway.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      I was visiting with some college FB coaches this past week. Making their local HS visits. Recruiting has changed, they are going 40% portal, 40% juco and 20% HS....I'm sure bb is the same, going to be hard for a HS kid to get the school he wants. prove yourself here and then go play there looks like the future...

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        I have a good friend who's son was a high level high school athlete. He graduated a year ago. First team all state in the highest level competition in a Houston high school. No D1 offers. Only D2 and JUCO. It was a combination of the Covid holdover kids creating a logjam of scholarships and the transfer portal being a big recruiting tool. This kid went JUCO and left after 2 weeks when he realized he'd rather have the education than play the sport. This kid would have been a high level D1 any other time and now he's a casualty of the times. There are thousands and thousands just like him. Fortunately for him, his parents have the means to pay for a college degree. Many of these kids will end up not going to college at all.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Shockm View Post

                          We have 5000 students enrolled in WSU Tech. WSU Tech is where we are producing manufacturing workers, plumbers, air conditioner technicians, and many other various careers. These jobs are very important, and only require a 1 or 2 year certificate. Many of our WSU Tech students may have participated in high school sports. However, none of our Div. 1 baseball, Volleyball, Softball, Track/Field, etc. athletes are enrolled in WSU Tech. They are becoming teachers, engineers, entrepreneurs, and businessman (corporate) which require 4 year careers. Maybe Creighton has athletes who go to a Tech school.
                          I'd take the same odds WuDrWu was offering that most of our athletes are earning soft degrees and not becoming engineers.

                          Since a plumber or electrician is likely to outearn a teacher, or social worker by multiples over a lifetime, maybe the NCAA should allow WSU Tech students to participate. Imagine being a licensed electrician at 22.
                          Wichita State, home of the All-Americans.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by WuDrWu View Post
                            Not to be a racist asshole, but I'll bet you $1000 to $1 that the inevitable damage that will be done to a largely minority base of student athletes in the form of wasted educational opportunities and minimal professional athletic successes will eventually be blamed on while privilege and their desire to monetize their dark skinned subjects.

                            Any takers?
                            I think this take lacks nuance. In general if you have to start with "not to be x..." you can rest assured the statement will sound like whatever "x" is. There are elements of truth in what you say, but the current system is not setting up a lot of people for success.
                            Wichita State, home of the All-Americans.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by BOBB View Post

                              I'd take the same odds WuDrWu was offering that most of our athletes are earning soft degrees and not becoming engineers.

                              Since a plumber or electrician is likely to outearn a teacher, or social worker by multiples over a lifetime, maybe the NCAA should allow WSU Tech students to participate. Imagine being a licensed electrician at 22.
                              liI don't even know what a soft degree is. Why would anyone think that the majority of athletes are engineer majors? I do think that Doc would know what the baseball team has planned. I looked on the baseball site and there were no social worker degrees listed. Teaching was only mentioned by one baseball player. Most listed business/finance as their major, followed by sports management. Criminal Justice had a couple and engineering/Science Physics were listed by three. No one listed their goal of becoming an electrician (or working in an aircraft manufacturing plant), although I would suspect that one or two will go in that direction, perhaps because their father is in business as electrician. That would also apply to other trades, but the majority of baseball players aren't going in that direction, and I would suspect other sports would mirror what the baseball team listed.

                              I would never have suspected Tom Kosich would become an entrepreneur like he is. I would have suspected, he would go into communications or a related field. Either way, most of our athletes are academically skilled, and are capable of doing anything they choose.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by BOBB View Post

                                I'd take the same odds WuDrWu was offering that most of our athletes are earning soft degrees and not becoming engineers.

                                Since a plumber or electrician is likely to outearn a teacher, or social worker by multiples over a lifetime, maybe the NCAA should allow WSU Tech students to participate. Imagine being a licensed electrician at 22.
                                BooB,
                                As of late, you been making some sense and we've even agreed on a number of issues.
                                However, there are other times where it appears you have been smoking too much dope and then posting.
                                This is one of those times.

                                That is all.
                                Above all, make the right call.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X