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Tulane at Wichita State Game Thread 1-12-22

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  • Originally posted by NCAABound View Post

    While that is true...the replacement would be the same burden financially....and the payoff otherwise would take years.
    There may still be the financial burden now, but would you want DB to still be in place when the time comes to make the next hire? The sooner we make that change, the better off we will be and the more time a new AD has to get things prepared and time to talk to donors about the vision and plan in place to return the program to where it should be.
    Infinity Art Glass - Fantastic local artist and Shocker fan
    RIP Guy Always A Shocker
    Downsizing Government - Part of the Cato Institute
    Carpenter Place - A blessing to many young girls/women
    Cato Institute - A libertarian take on the issues
    ICT S.O.S - Great local cause fighting against human trafficking
    Wartick Insurance Agency - Saved me money with more coverage.
    MVCFans Alternative, Where ALL Voices Can Be Heard - Come join the party

    Comment


    • Muma doesn’t have the stones to fire Boat.

      Comment




      • Noticed this as well

        Comment


        • Originally posted by NCAABound View Post

          Jake!!!...If i recall Sub was a huge fan...but i could be wrong.
          I don't know about huge fan, but I liked the kid. He was smart and worked his ass off. Never quite developed like we had hoped but I liked his potential to stretch the D a bit and be where he needed to be. I obviously liked him more than some on here. He wasn't the most athletic, but I've often said I'll take a guy or two that aren't quite the athletes but are smart and can knock down some shots. I don't think he hit quite the percentage that his HS numbers would have given us hope for, but taking a guy or two like that from time to time isn't the worst thing ever. Graham Hatch is a guy I loved. Again, not the greatest athlete but busted his ass and knocked down shots and did a lot of the gritty and little things that allow you to win. Kind of like Wessel, but a better shooter. Though Evan was a better athlete than I think many remember or believed. He was also a D1 talent in football and probably would have been a damn good player on the field.
          Infinity Art Glass - Fantastic local artist and Shocker fan
          RIP Guy Always A Shocker
          Downsizing Government - Part of the Cato Institute
          Carpenter Place - A blessing to many young girls/women
          Cato Institute - A libertarian take on the issues
          ICT S.O.S - Great local cause fighting against human trafficking
          Wartick Insurance Agency - Saved me money with more coverage.
          MVCFans Alternative, Where ALL Voices Can Be Heard - Come join the party

          Comment


          • First of all, this season will be filled with more knee-jerk reactions than you can shake a stick at. It’s understandable. And to go along with that, I would recommend that all SNers strap in because this season is going to become even more infuriating unless you get to the Acceptance stage of grief.

            I was working last night and caught the game on and off until the last four minutes when I was able to watch. Even if I had, I don’t think I would be able to share any new ground-breaking analysis that others have not shared already on this board. I think we have a pretty good grasp on what this team is capable of at this point in the season.

            My wife and I have a friend who has been through some tough family dynamics, particularly with her father growing up…not necessarily abuse but just tough relationships. She was talking about how to view your parents even though they are imperfect. Her quote was, “It’s helpful to look at them as if they were doing the best they could with what they have (emotionally, intellectually, etc.).” I think that applies perfectly here. As much as it’s easy to chastise IB, the staff, and the players for whatever decisions you think they should or shouldn’t make, I would recommend taking that approach. If IB were capable of changing something about his personality or coaching approach and it would improve this program, I imagine he would do it. If the players were capable of increasing their ability (and they certainly are, but to what degree is unknown) or getting to the point where they could be a tournament team, I imagine they’d do it. But at some point people are who they are.

            The fact that this team is struggling is not necessarily the root issue, although it is an issue. It’s primarily symptomatic of the issues that plague this athletic department (both financially and with leadership), the fallout from the departure of GM, and unfortunately, some of the issues he left behind. Only when those issues are resolved does the on court product improve.

            These guys have fought back in games against Arizona, UNLV, Oklahoma State, and Houston. They haven’t won them all but it’s clear they care, they fight, and they want to be here. My approach going forward this season will be to accept who this team, coaching staff, and program is and support it regardless. I have plenty of criticisms that I have voiced on this board and to friends, but I only have so much energy that I can devote to so many things. So I will do my best to stay sober-minded about what this team is and isn’t, criticize when necessary, and support them regardless. It’s going to be a long year and they will all need it if this program is going to get through the season. But it’s going to be a lot easier for me if I accept the situation at hand and look towards a hopefully brighter future in the distance.
            "In God we trust, all others must bring data." - W. Edwards Deming

            Comment


            • We are way better when Council and Tyson are playing, but here’s the caveat - neither of them know their weaknesses. Tyson should not be handling the ball, he is a spot up shooter only. Council should not be handling the ball, he is probably the best rebounder on the team and a garbage guy. He is actually a better version of Rashard Kelly than a poor man’s Cle Early. Both guys are be mis-utilized. While I’m at it, Joe Pleasant looks so bad because he’s not a 4, he’s a 5 only. His big ass needs to be in the paint taking up space and getting in the way. Use him as an interior passer.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by TrackSuitAndTie View Post


                Noticed this as well
                Yup. Definitely noticed lot of bad body language. During one Timeout towards the end of the game after Jenkins had just been pulled I watched him walk around down the bench facing away from the team, walk around back to the other side, lean on the scorers table and watch the cheerleaders all while the rest of the team and coaches were huddled up and talking
                Last edited by Stickboy46; 1 week ago.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Stickboy46 View Post

                  Yup. Definitely noticed lot of bad body language. During one Timeout towards the end of the game after Jenkins had just been pulled I watched him walk around down the bench facing away from the team, walk around back to the other side, lean on the scorers table and watch the cheerleaders all while the rest of the team and coaches were huddled up and talking
                  Monzy didn't box out on a defensive rebound, got pulled and talked to by the coaches. He argued, threw his hands in the air, the walk-on had to calm him down. He sat on the bench with a towel over his head the rest of the game. I can see why some of these guys aren't getting more time.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Dan View Post
                    We are way better when Council and Tyson are playing, but here’s the caveat - neither of them know their weaknesses. Tyson should not be handling the ball, he is a spot up shooter only. Council should not be handling the ball, he is probably the best rebounder on the team and a garbage guy. He is actually a better version of Rashard Kelly than a poor man’s Cle Early. Both guys are be mis-utilized. While I’m at it, Joe Pleasant looks so bad because he’s not a 4, he’s a 5 only. His big ass needs to be in the paint taking up space and getting in the way. Use him as an interior passer.
                    I read your post several times. I don't think I can disagree with what your saying. What the heck is going on with this team? The one game where we have a size advantage MO and DD are not playing? Really? What ever they did, they let this team down. Fu@k their stupidity. No Excuses. Everybody else can do what they need to and they can't. You expect more from seniors.

                    The fact that we had no inside game last night is why we had to watch Fifi get abused . Fifi would grab a rebound and then just fumble it out of bounds. I saw no heart in his play.. Gets his shot blocked almost every time and literally abused on defense. I have seen teams deliberately run plays at him because he is so weak in the paint. Chauncey Jenkins played like he wasn't even on the same planet. Neither should have seen much court time last night, but this is what happens when MO and DD are missing in action.

                    Finally totally agree about TE. Craig Porter is the leader and pg on this team. Give him dam ball. He is the only one that should have had the ball with 8 seconds to go. Why? Because he can get to the paint and shoot midrange shot and if Tulane doubles he knows how to pass to the open man. Forcing the ball to TE while he was being doubled team was just STUPID. Go Shocks.

                    Comment


                    • Back to my KP argument. He and RC are the two players that show the most promise
                      and UPSIDE. Anyone believe there is upside or improvement in JP's game?
                      KP is not going to toughen up and gain confidence playing 12 minutes a game and behind
                      JP. I keep saying his biggest potential is at the power or stretch four position. He is
                      not going to improve and reach his potential ( and he has so much more than others )
                      playing the role IB has him playing. This is all on IB and if we lose KP after this season
                      THAT will all be on IB, as well. Right now we have NOTHING to lose by playing KP at
                      least 15 minutes per game at PF and another ten backing up at center.

                      Also, on the last possession from the first time out to the third without an inbounds it
                      was obvious they were going to double TE yet IB falls right into the big trap by
                      forcing the ball into FROM our talented PG ( CP ) who should have had the ball in
                      HIS hands with TE coming off a screen. CP and TE would have attracted 3-4 defenders
                      making getting a good look from someone else a high probability. KP should have been
                      on the floor as one of those options that would have been wide open with 3-4 players
                      hounding CP&TE. Very poor planning at the end even after 3 timeouts. An 0-8 start is
                      looking likely now.........play the kids that have the most upside NOW.
                      Last edited by asiseeit; 1 week ago.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by asiseeit View Post
                        Back to my KP argument. He and RC are the two players that show the most promise
                        and UPSIDE. Anyone believe there is upside or improvement in JP's game?
                        KP is not going to toughen up and gain confidence playing 12 minutes a game and behind
                        JP. I keep saying his biggest potential is at the power or stretch four position. He is
                        not going to improve and reach his potential ( and he has so much more than others )
                        playing the role IB has him playing. This is all on IB and if we lose KP after this season
                        THAT will all be on IB, as well. Right now we have NOTHING to lose by playing KP at
                        least 15 minutes per game at PF and another ten backing up at center.

                        Also, on the last possession from the first time out to the third without an inbounds it
                        was obvious they were going to double TE yet IB falls right into the big trap by
                        forcing the ball into FROM our talented PG ( CP ) who should have had the ball in
                        HIS hands with TE coming off a screen. CP and TE would have attracted 3-4 defenders
                        making getting a good look from someone else a high probability. KP should have been
                        on the floor as one of those options that would have been wide open with 3-4 players
                        hounding CP&TE. Very poor planning at the end even after 3 timeouts. An 0-8 start is
                        looking likely now.........play the kids that have the most upside NOW.
                        KP has been getting bullied the last two games. He should not have been on the floor for the last play.

                        Comment


                        • TE is not a drive and finish guy so why in the world draw up a play for him to drive into the paint? So dumb.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by shocker43 View Post

                            Monzy didn't box out on a defensive rebound, got pulled and talked to by the coaches. He argued, threw his hands in the air, the walk-on had to calm him down. He sat on the bench with a towel over his head the rest of the game. I can see why some of these guys aren't getting more time.
                            Yeah. I saw that too. MJ is a good character player but his energy is misdirected. Instead of arguing he should be trying to learn and play more consistent. It's too bad we can't put Joe Pleasant basketball IQ into Monzy and put Monzy athleticism into Joe.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
                              First of all, this season will be filled with more knee-jerk reactions than you can shake a stick at. It’s understandable. And to go along with that, I would recommend that all SNers strap in because this season is going to become even more infuriating unless you get to the Acceptance stage of grief.

                              I was working last night and caught the game on and off until the last four minutes when I was able to watch. Even if I had, I don’t think I would be able to share any new ground-breaking analysis that others have not shared already on this board. I think we have a pretty good grasp on what this team is capable of at this point in the season.

                              My wife and I have a friend who has been through some tough family dynamics, particularly with her father growing up…not necessarily abuse but just tough relationships. She was talking about how to view your parents even though they are imperfect. Her quote was, “It’s helpful to look at them as if they were doing the best they could with what they have (emotionally, intellectually, etc.).” I think that applies perfectly here. As much as it’s easy to chastise IB, the staff, and the players for whatever decisions you think they should or shouldn’t make, I would recommend taking that approach. If IB were capable of changing something about his personality or coaching approach and it would improve this program, I imagine he would do it. If the players were capable of increasing their ability (and they certainly are, but to what degree is unknown) or getting to the point where they could be a tournament team, I imagine they’d do it. But at some point people are who they are.

                              The fact that this team is struggling is not necessarily the root issue, although it is an issue. It’s primarily symptomatic of the issues that plague this athletic department (both financially and with leadership), the fallout from the departure of GM, and unfortunately, some of the issues he left behind. Only when those issues are resolved does the on court product improve.

                              These guys have fought back in games against Arizona, UNLV, Oklahoma State, and Houston. They haven’t won them all but it’s clear they care, they fight, and they want to be here. My approach going forward this season will be to accept who this team, coaching staff, and program is and support it regardless. I have plenty of criticisms that I have voiced on this board and to friends, but I only have so much energy that I can devote to so many things. So I will do my best to stay sober-minded about what this team is and isn’t, criticize when necessary, and support them regardless. It’s going to be a long year and they will all need it if this program is going to get through the season. But it’s going to be a lot easier for me if I accept the situation at hand and look towards a hopefully brighter future in the distance.
                              Can you explain what you mean by this?

                              ​​​​​

                              Comment


                              • You don't think everyone else were getting "bullied " and abused in the paint ? They
                                continuously scored easily in the paint when KP sat. KP has potential to get better.
                                How much improvement do you see from JP or even Monzy? KP SHOULD have been
                                in at the end, would likely to have been an open option as Tulane over played TE & CP,
                                and he is a good outside shooter/option we needed in that moment.

                                Comment

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