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Wichita State Shockers vs. UNLV Game Thread 11-21-21

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  • Originally posted by pinstripers View Post

    last one, I promise.......we destroyed you in football at your place that year. I recall our fullback (ahem) going around left end and taking it 65 yards to the house sans one shoe
    Circle barely plays football lol. I believe we had our fist post season win this year since 1980. But that does sound vaguely familiar. Pretty sure you guys, and most schools, kicked our asses on the gridiron. There were exceptions and we had some decent athletes and could be semi-competitive at times. But a lot of our best athletes didn't play football. But there were some great pickup basketball games after school in the fall.

    I'm honestly surprised we didn't have more success when Jordan Phillips (currently playing for the Arizona Cardinals) was here. That kid was a fantastic athlete and a beast of a man.
    Infinity Art Glass - Fantastic local artist and Shocker fan
    RIP Guy Always A Shocker
    Downsizing Government - Part of the Cato Institute
    Carpenter Place - A blessing to many young girls/women
    Cato Institute - A libertarian take on the issues
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    • Originally posted by SubGod22 View Post

      Circle barely plays football lol. I believe we had our fist post season win this year since 1980. But that does sound vaguely familiar. Pretty sure you guys, and most schools, kicked our asses on the gridiron. There were exceptions and we had some decent athletes and could be semi-competitive at times. But a lot of our best athletes didn't play football. But there were some great pickup basketball games after school in the fall.

      I'm honestly surprised we didn't have more success when Jordan Phillips (currently playing for the Arizona Cardinals) was here. That kid was a fantastic athlete and a beast of a man.
      I was on the 1980 team. We lost to Fredonia in the state semis.
      Go Shocks!

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      • Originally posted by ShockerDropOut View Post

        I was on the 1980 team. We lost to Fredonia in the state semis.
        Glad to have another Circle alum around here. I know the QB of that team decently well. Grew up around him and his family, hard not to in this town. That lonely banner of yours hanging in the gym always stood out. Circle has had some decent teams from time to time but not much success.
        Infinity Art Glass - Fantastic local artist and Shocker fan
        RIP Guy Always A Shocker
        Downsizing Government - Part of the Cato Institute
        Carpenter Place - A blessing to many young girls/women
        Cato Institute - A libertarian take on the issues
        ICT S.O.S - Great local cause fighting against human trafficking
        Wartick Insurance Agency - Saved me money with more coverage.
        MVCFans Alternative, Where ALL Voices Can Be Heard - Come join the party

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        • Originally posted by pie n eye View Post

          I wouldn’t really call it a “rule” more just a best practice.

          A defender should rarely, if ever, dictate the offense in a 2 on 1 fast break no matter how good they are. They’re at a disadvantage and, if ran correctly, should be forced to make a decision that will result in an easy bucket for the offense.

          In the play we’re discussing the defender in no way forced Qua Grant to pass the ball when he did. It was a mistake by the offense.

          Could Ricky have saved the opportunity by giving it back to Qua? Most definitely. But his job in that situation is to catch and finish. It’s Qua’s job to read the defense and make the right decision which he did not do in this particular instance.
          Well, I saw Fred and Ron convert easy baskets on fast breaks and pass the ball 2-3 times on multiple occasions. They were All American players but couldn’t dunk it unless no defender on a fast break. They broke your best practice much more than once. I bring them up because I know you know them.

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          • Originally posted by pie n eye View Post

            Thanks for the recap, I didn’t remember the specifics. Based on what you described I would say Qua was equally responsible, if not more, as Ricky for the end result.

            In this specific case Qua should get into either Monzie or RC4’s lane. I would prefer Monzie’s because RC4 is a more lethal finisher. That way you have proper spacing with the ball handler on one side of the rim and RC4 on the other side instead of the ball handler in the middle. Qua then just has to read the defender. If he hangs back take the easy layup yourself. If he comes to defend you throw it over to RC4 for the dunk.

            Qua knows that. He’s fully capable of running the break. He probably thought Ricky was further ahead of the defender and had a clearer lane to the basket or else didn’t expect much effort by the defender. It didn’t work out that time but I expect we will score 99/100 in that situation in the future.

            Of course then there was the Tyson fast break debacle in the same game. Was there one more?
            Agree. IMO, those fast breaks were simply violations of Basketball 101: Fast breaks work when the attack is wide. If everybody attacks down the center, one guy can cover multiple people.

            It's something I've heard coaches harp on, most notably Mike Cohen, who could never get his teams to do it despite placing folding chairs on the court that they had to run to the outside of on fast break drills. I think one player (maybe Winston Peterson?) still ran inside the chair during the drill, causing the end of practice and lots and lots of running. (There may have been a few learning disabilities on that team, I think)
            “The rebellion on the populist right against the results of the 2020 election was partly a cynical, knowing effort by political operators and their hype men in the media to steal an election or at least get rich trying. But it was also the tragic consequence of the informational malnourishment so badly afflicting the nation. ... Americans gorge themselves daily on empty informational calories, indulging their sugar fixes of self-affirming half-truths and even outright lies.'

            ― Chris Stirewalt

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            • Originally posted by Shockm View Post

              Well, I saw Fred and Ron convert easy baskets on fast breaks and pass the ball 2-3 times on multiple occasions. They were All American players but couldn’t dunk it unless no defender on a fast break. They broke your best practice much more than once. I bring them up because I know you know them.
              Of course it can work. I’ve seen it. It can be fun to watch and flashy.

              I’ve seen guys throw the ball off the backboard to their teammate for a dunk on multiple occasions. That doesn’t mean it’s the fundamentally “correct” play.

              If done right, you should be able to score in a 2 on 1 situation with zero or one passes. Whether it’s a dunk or a layup is irrelevant, either one works.

              The more passes you throw the more time the trailing defense has to catch up to the play.

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              • My apologies for being a broken record here. One of these days I’ll learn to just let it go.

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                • Originally posted by pie n eye View Post
                  My apologies for being a broken record here. One of these days I’ll learn to just let it go.
                  But how would you "Feel" if you did let it go? Asking for a shrink!!!

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                  • Originally posted by pie n eye View Post

                    Of course it can work. I’ve seen it. It can be fun to watch and flashy.

                    I’ve seen guys throw the ball off the backboard to their teammate for a dunk on multiple occasions. That doesn’t mean it’s the fundamentally “correct” play.

                    If done right, you should be able to score in a 2 on 1 situation with zero or one passes. Whether it’s a dunk or a layup is irrelevant, either one works.

                    The more passes you throw the more time the trailing defense has to catch up to the play.
                    Perfection often doesn’t happen in a basketball or football game. Any good coach knows that, and It still should have resulted in two points.

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                    • [QUOTE=Wuzee;n1319069]

                      Agree. IMO, those fast breaks were simply violations of Basketball 101: Fast breaks work when the attack is wide. If everybody attacks down the center, one guy can cover multiple people.

                      This is correct.

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                      • By the time a player gets to college and playing D1 ball, it might be assumed they know how to run a fast break, since that's taught from the earliest levels of basketball.

                        But the guys running transition for the Shox were probably the fastest guys down the court at every level they've played at for their entire lives and were always the guy who took the ball to the hoop. they were always the guy who received, not threw the last pass.

                        I imagine there will be some full court practices of how to effectively run a fast break that includes passing the ball and running the length of the court a few times in the process. Might even be a review of some game film with some explanations of how many points were given up by not knowing how to finish in transition. Might even be some mentions of the margin of victory being double digits and they wouldn't have had to sweat out the ending if they knew how to exectute in transition.

                        Fixing broken fast breaks is not difficult and might be a useful tool for informing players they're not playing HS, JuCo, or AAU ball any more. Might even be some explanations that guys in biddy ball can execute flawless fast breaks.

                        I'm pretty certain IB can and will get their attention. Possibly get in some conditioning drills to boot.

                        Mistakes can be learning opportunities. Sometimes you don't know what needs to be learned until it's demonstrated by observing mistakes. With Council and Jackson seeming to have some trouble grasping offensive and defensive schemes, working on that may have taken priority over teaching how to run a fast break. It might be expected that players already know how to do that. Learning something that needs attention in a win is a good thing.

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