2021 WSU transfers starting

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

Our two point guards last season, Burton and Sherfield, were better in the following categories:

Offensive Rating
Win Shares

Jamarius was better in Box Plus/Minus (4.3 to 2.5) and Sherfield was 2.2 in Box Plus/Minus compared to AG's 2.5. Between the two of them, they averaged +3.25 BPM compared to AG's +2.5.

So yes, our point guard position was better last season.

I am guessing you are the only person (maybe 1976 too) that would rather have JB and Sherfield running the point than AG. Absolutely ridiculous argument.

Better assist to turnover ratio this season and fewer turnovers per game.

[Kel Varnsen]

I am guessing you are the only person (maybe 1976 too) that would rather have JB and Sherfield running the point than AG. Absolutely ridiculous argument.

Well, I laid out the production for each respective player in question. You claim I have made a ridiculous argument but have not backed it up with anything.

In addition, the duo of Burton and Sherfield had a better combined effective field goal percentage (45.1%) than Gilbert this season (41.6%). They were also on a team who finished 30 spots higher in most predictive metrics. If it's such a ridiculous argument, then it should be easy to refute.

[ShockerLurker]

Our two point guards last season, Burton and Sherfield, were better in the following categories:

Offensive Rating
Win Shares

Jamarius was better in Box Plus/Minus (4.3 to 2.5) and Sherfield was 2.2 in Box Plus/Minus compared to AG's 2.5. Between the two of them, they averaged +3.25 BPM compared to AG's +2.5.

So yes, our point guard position was better last season.

Yes. One of those players was good at basketball when he played at WSU. We signed 3 point guards to get one who who was probably a better option than gilbert in his second year on the team. Of course they all transferred.

So, you are suggesting that a third team all conference player should not be allowed to return because a theoretical guard will want to use his spot. Of course they can both be on the team since Gilbert wouldn't use a scholarship spot apparently.

Show me this magical player who is so good we know he will be all conference his first year, will mesh with the team, and will not transfer out. Also, for this to make sense he would also have to think Gilbert smells funny or something, since he couldn't want to be on the team at the same time.

This assumes that gilbert makes no progress in his second year of course.

[Kel Varnsen]

Yes. One of those players was good at basketball when he played at WSU. We signed 3 point guards to get one who who was probably a better option than gilbert in his second year on the team. Of course they all transferred.

So, you are suggesting that a third team all conference player should not be allowed to return because a theoretical guard will want to use his spot. Of course they can both be on the team since Gilbert wouldn't use a scholarship spot apparently.

Show me this magical player who is so good we know he will be all conference his first year, will mesh with the team, and will not transfer out. Also, for this to make sense he would also have to think Gilbert smells funny or something, since he couldn't want to be on the team at the same time.

This assumes that gilbert makes no progress in his second year of course.

AG was named to the all-conference team, but he was not a top 15 player in the conference. Top 30, maybe. But not Top 15.

If Gilbert is here next year, he will start at point guard, even if it's to the team's detriment. I don't think IB will stop that. I hope I'm wrong.

The question isn't if we can find a player who will be better next season, it's if we can find a player who will add more value over the course of his career. And AG only has one more year left.

[pie n eye]

I think the thing that holds Gilbert back from being elite is simple. He’s a below average shooter but his shot volume doesn’t reflect that shortcoming.

If I’m being honest I’m torn over whether I’d like to see him return. He is a good player and has a year of experience in the system and with his teammates. Thats a big plus in my book. He is probably not going to significantly improve his shooting ability in the off season so the hope would be that the coaches could work with him on picking and choosing his spots more effectively.

At the same time, the transfer market is going to be healthy this year and it would be nice to add a PG who could knock down threes at a 35+% rate. Maybe that could be done by adding a freshman who is willing to play back up minutes his first year.

Of course, Craig Porter is still around, which potentially complicated things. The good thing about him is that he’s versatile and can play 1-3.

However it shakes out I’m excited about next season because we have a solid bunch returning players who will set the tone for any newcomers.

[shocks02]

I think the thing that holds Gilbert back from being elite is simple. He’s a below average shooter but his shot volume doesn’t reflect that shortcoming.

If I’m being honest I’m torn over whether I’d like to see him return. He is a good player and has a year of experience in the system and with his teammates. Thats a big plus in my book. He is probably not going to significantly improve his shooting ability in the off season so the hope would be that the coaches could work with him on picking and choosing his spots more effectively.

At the same time, the transfer market is going to be healthy this year and it would be nice to add a PG who could knock down threes at a 35+% rate. Maybe that could be done by adding a freshman who is willing to play back up minutes his first year.

Of course, Craig Porter is still around, which potentially complicated things. The good thing about him is that he’s versatile and can play 1-3.

However it shakes out I’m excited about next season because we have a solid bunch returning players who will set the tone for any newcomers.

This team has enough shooters. We need AG to make more of his shots at the rim. Seems like he did improve in that category as the season went on. As long as he can stick around 30% on 3 and keep the defense honest on him then that is more than enough.

[Wooglin]

AG was named to the all-conference team, but he was not a top 15 player in the conference. Top 30, maybe. But not Top 15.

If Gilbert is here next year, he will start at point guard, even if it's to the team's detriment. I don't think IB will stop that. I hope I'm wrong.

The question isn't if we can find a player who will be better next season, it's if we can find a player who will add more value over the course of his career. And AG only has one more year left.

Its disappointing you don't have confidence in HCIB to put the best 5 on the floor. If he is only "top 30" as you suggest, WSU would need to sign some more PG's, but if he is the best we have, you don't kick him out and hope for something better. A head coaches job is to sign players, and then while coaching them up, start looking for his replacement. It has to have all 3 components. Don't spend your stimulus check until its in the bank. Right now our bank is needing to deposit some PG's, but until then....let AG do his thing while he develops for a second year under the same coach and the same core players.

[pie n eye]

This team has enough shooters. We need AG to make more of his shots at the rim. Seems like he did improve in that category as the season went on. As long as he can stick around 30% on 3 and keep the defense honest on him then that is more than enough.

Do we have enough shooters, though? We have one guy*, Tyson, who shot anywhere near 40% and one other guy, Dexter, who shot anywhere near 35%.

*Ricky was at 44% on 27 attempts. I should probably include him for now.

I think Dexter *should* be closer to 40% next year because he’s done it in the past but so far he’s started each season cold as ice from three so it’s no guarantee.

28%, even 30% just isn’t near good enough from the player who attempts the third most shots from that range.

[Wooglin]

This team has enough shooters. We need AG to make more of his shots at the rim. Seems like he did improve in that category as the season went on. As long as he can stick around 30% on 3 and keep the defense honest on him then that is more than enough.

He signed with WSU 361 days ago...... then the "coughy sneezy stuffy head fever and I might die" thing hit. All new faces and all new skill sets trying to blend together as a team makes it difficult for a team to gel. I am encouraged with his progress during the season and I don't believe he is at his ceiling. Since we are returning most of our core (so far), I have high expectations for the entire team taking a big step forward. AG included! The transfer portal is open wider than a Kardashian, but I believe that team chemistry and familiarity is a better path to success. Sign some stud PGs and bring them in to develop.

[Shock Top]

Do we have enough shooters, though? We have one guy*, Tyson, who shot anywhere near 40% and one other guy, Dexter, who shot anywhere near 35%.

*Ricky was at 44% on 27 attempts. I should probably include him for now.

I think Dexter *should* be closer to 40% next year because he’s done it in the past but so far he’s started each season cold as ice from three so it’s no guarantee.

28%, even 30% just isn’t near good enough from the player who attempts the third most shots from that range.

Even a lot of Tyson’s 3-point shoots aren’t great shots, yet he’s shooting at a decent percentage.

If he took more good shots and stopped taking some of those less optimal ones, he’d be even better.

[ShockerFever]

AG isn’t a true point guard. And that’s the problem. Hands get sticky. Offense clogs. Random shots get fired up with 25 seconds left on the shot clock by a 30% 3 point shooter.

Im sorry, but we’re gonna have the same issues that plagued us all year plague us again next year if AG is in charge. It’s not mean, just the facts. Perhaps he wants a 3rd, 4th, or 5th crack at a buzzer beater from 30 feet out with 3 seconds left on the clock.

[Wooglin]

Even a lot of Tyson’s 3-point shoots aren’t great shots, yet he’s shooting at a decent percentage.

If he took more good shots and stopped taking some of those less optimal ones, he’d be even better.

Rarely did I see him pass up a good shot so it might be difficult for him to make more good shots. As for the less optimal ones, as his team around him improves, those shots will diminish as well. If a post player beats his man, it opens up the opportunity for pass and assist rather than a questionable shot. Both years have been an improvement for him so its doubtful his numbers are going anywhere but up.

[ShockerLurker]

The shox best offensive years see them with 4-5 offensive weapons on the court at a time, or at least options to do it when needed. This year we sometimes had 2. They looked really bad when AG, TW, and Dex went into shooting slumps, which they sometimes did at the same time. I personally think the success of next year is in development of young players already on the roster, plus ideally the best available big and one other. I'm less concerned with adding a point guard then giving a pg someone to pass to.

Of course we need a pg or two for the following year, but I'd be thrilled to get gilbert for another year.

[TheShocktocles]

AG isn’t a true point guard. And that’s the problem. Hands get sticky. Offense clogs. Random shots get fired up with 25 seconds left on the shot clock by a 30% 3 point shooter.

Im sorry, but we’re gonna have the same issues that plagued us all year plague us again next year if AG is in charge. It’s not mean, just the facts. Perhaps he wants a 3rd, 4th, or 5th crack at a buzzer beater from 30 feet out with 3 seconds left on the clock.

Your analysis assumes that he does not improve if he stays. SHJ was way better than he was after his first year. All of these players have the potential to improve after spending 1 year in the program. Go shocks

[Stickboy46]

The biggest reason why AG is a no brainer to keep (if he wants to come back ) is HE IS LITERALLY A FREE PLAYER (figuratively, not actually free, still gotta pay for his scholarship). We can go over the scholarship limit to bring him back. It's an absolute no brainer to bring back an all conference player when you can still get someone in with multiple years remaining too. The only reason you would remotely consider not brining him back is if you had an elite PG ready to sign that only has a year left and will only sign without AG here. Though to be fair, if that's the case we should be challenging if that PG is the right player if he's not ok with competition.

You are very very very unlikely to sign an young PG that will have the impact on the game that AG would have next year.