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  • #16
    Originally posted by SubGod22
    I've been disappointed in most everyone with the exception of Matt, Phil and JT.
    Clemente has not disappointed me either. Would I like him to score a little more, sure, but his effort cannot be questioned. And I have to say that Ellis has played well too, for a freshman.

    I have been thrilled with PT's play to so far. MB's contribution is obvious but he also exceeded my expectations. The same goes for Durley even though he has a lot to work on to become a complete player.

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    • #17
      I would love to see PJ assert himself the rest of the season exactly as he did last evening and I will have precisely zero disappointments.


      :wsu_posters: :goshocks: :posterwu: :posterwsu:

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      • #18
        Originally posted by ShockerFever
        Originally posted by goshocks
        You PJ haters are wrong. He had 16 points, 8 boards, 3 dimes, 3 blks. What more can you ask of one player.
        Exactly. And that's why he was the player of the game.

        I don't get it. We can criticize PJ all we want, even when he's our POG, but dare we call out Gal on anything, a nuclear bomb is dropped.
        This is funny. Gal has easily been the most criticized player on this team. Some of it he deserves, much of it he does not.

        PJ has received very little criticism during his career. He hasn't deserved much.

        He does not deserve a whole lot of criticism now, but I do think the points I made in the first post are valid.

        PJ is our best player. PJ is a senior. Because of those two things it is not unfair to have high expectations of him.

        When PJ is on the court, I don't want him to allow us to go 6+ minutes without scoring. He is among the best in the conference at driving and getting fouled. He did that many times last night, but much when we needed it most.

        He has made free throws in the past. I expect him to make free throws now.

        He was our player of the game. No doubt about it. However, his 16 points should have been 20+ (missed layups and freethrows) which would have been huge in a three point loss.

        I expect PJ to know how valuable he is to the team, and thus not hand check 20 ft from the basket. He has spent too much time on the bench in foul trouble, usually do to silly fouls.

        He is our best. He is one of my favorites of all time. He also deserves some blame and criticism for the poor season we are having.

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        • #19
          There should be no question as to who the go-to guy is on this team. That person should be PJ, but in reality, it is not. He doesn't command or demand the ball in the clutch or when the team is struggling.

          I expected a season where you would need to double-team him to keep him from getting 20 points.

          Players who are seniors with thoughts of the NBA should meet those expectations. There is still time, but now is that time.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by ISASO
            Players who are seniors with thoughts of the NBA should meet those expectations. There is still time, but now is that time.
            That's the funny thing. I think PJ is playing with too much NBA in mind. In reality, he's just not quite NBA material. We need the PJ of old to come back, the one who didn't care about the NBA.
            Deuces Valley.
            ... No really, deuces.
            ________________
            "Enjoy the ride."

            - a smart man

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            • #21
              I figured that since I was comparing expectations to realities I would do my personal rundown for the whole roster.

              Gal- Slight disappointment from what I expected before the year. However, the way he started out shooting the ball my expectations went up quite a bit after the first few games. That makes his recent play even more disappointing. The turnovers have gone way down, but so have the shooting percentages. I still think he is more of an asset than a liability.

              PJ- Slight disappointment. Very high expectations. See above.

              Matt- Slightly exceeds expectations. Has played the floor game that I expected, but has scored better, at times, than I thought he would. Like all of our shooters, has been inconsistent from 3. I think his D has improved every year.

              Phillip- Exceeding expectations. Playing well and has been very consistent. Making free throws.

              Ramon- Exceeding expectations. Excellent rebounder and defender for his size. Didn't expect much scoring from him.

              Mantas- Disappointment. I expected him to replace SOME of what Kyle brought last year. He does seem to be coming around, so I am still hopeful.

              Aaron- Disappointment. A little harsh to call a freshman a disappointment, but I am only talking about up to this point. I am certainly still glad we have him, but after hearing coach talk him up, I expected more immediate contributions.

              JT- Exceeding expectations. He is a poor defender, but honestly not as bad as I expected. His offensive game can be dynamic. I hope the desire to improve that he has expressed to MK is genuine, because if it is I can see him being an all-conference performer in the future.

              Wendell- Slightly disappointing. I didn't expect much, but I hoped that he could have found some way to contribute on offense. 2/10 from the line is unacceptable for the last man on the bench.

              Graham- Exactly what I expected. I had lost faith in MT's recruiting, and thus didn't expect any contribution, especially following his mission. Will be surprised if he is back next year.

              Arbry- After this summer's developments, we are getting exactly what I thought we would get... a practice player who probably won't be back.

              I never have expectations of walk-ons. Any game contribution from a walk-on is gravy, but also a sign that things aren't going well.

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              • #22
                I cannot argue with much except Ellis. I know that Marshall did speak highly of him before set foot on campus but Ellis is playing like a freshman. I am not sure what you expected. He is inconsistent but he has shown flashes of what he could become on both ends of the court. Be patient with this kid, once things start to "click" for him he is going to be a heck of a SF.

                MG has probably been the biggest disappoints for me because I know the kid can play.

                I have been in Butler's corner from the beginning but now he is really starting to annoy me. Marshall was saying nice things about this kid before he got hurt. I just don't understand what he is thinking.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Maggie
                  I cannot argue with much except Ellis. I know that Marshall did speak highly of him before set foot on campus but Ellis is playing like a freshman. I am not sure what you expected. He is inconsistent but he has shown flashes of what he could become on both ends of the court. Be patient with this kid, once things start to "click" for him he is going to be a heck of a SF.
                  I guess my expectations of AE were 4-6 ppg and a few "WOW" moments. There have been a couple of those moments, but not many and 1.4 ppg is not very good for a player getting as much pre-season run as he was getting. I did say that I am still glad he is here. I look forward to his next three years, but THIS year has been a disappointment SO FAR.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by McShocker
                    Originally posted by Maggie
                    I cannot argue with much except Ellis. I know that Marshall did speak highly of him before set foot on campus but Ellis is playing like a freshman. I am not sure what you expected. He is inconsistent but he has shown flashes of what he could become on both ends of the court. Be patient with this kid, once things start to "click" for him he is going to be a heck of a SF.
                    I guess my expectations of AE were 4-6 ppg and a few "WOW" moments. There have been a couple of those moments, but not many and 1.4 ppg is not very good for a player getting as much pre-season run as he was getting. I did say that I am still glad he is here. I look forward to his next three years, but THIS year has been a disappointment SO FAR.

                    That is fair. I understand your point of view and I do not think your expectations are too far out of line. That being said, I do not think you will remain disappointed in Aaron Ellis. ;-)

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Maggie
                      Originally posted by SubGod22
                      I've been disappointed in most everyone with the exception of Matt, Phil and JT.
                      Clemente has not disappointed me either. Would I like him to score a little more, sure, but his effort cannot be questioned. And I have to say that Ellis has played well too, for a freshman.

                      I have been thrilled with PT's play to so far. MB's contribution is obvious but he also exceeded my expectations. The same goes for Durley even though he has a lot to work on to become a complete player.
                      I like how hard Ramon plays, but his struggles to put the ball back in the hoop from point blank range moved him into the disappointment category. That's about the only way he scores and he's let me down there.

                      Ellis has come along slower than I'd hoped but he's a freshman and I'm not that down on him. He's going to be a player.
                      Infinity Art Glass - Fantastic local artist and Shocker fan
                      RIP Guy Always A Shocker
                      Carpenter Place - A blessing to many young girls/women
                      ICT S.O.S - Great local cause fighting against human trafficking
                      Wartick Insurance Agency - Saved me money with more coverage.
                      Save Shocker Sports - A rallying cry

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                      • #26
                        And on our last second shot last night I wonder how many were thinking the same thing I was?

                        Get the ball to Durley!!!
                        Infinity Art Glass - Fantastic local artist and Shocker fan
                        RIP Guy Always A Shocker
                        Carpenter Place - A blessing to many young girls/women
                        ICT S.O.S - Great local cause fighting against human trafficking
                        Wartick Insurance Agency - Saved me money with more coverage.
                        Save Shocker Sports - A rallying cry

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by goshocks
                          You PJ haters are wrong. He had 16 points, 8 boards, 3 dimes, 3 blks. What more can you ask of one player.
                          I don't think there are many, if any, PJ haters among Shocker fans. Perhaps, our expectations for PJ are too high, because we think so highly of him as a player.

                          What more can we ask of PJ? If you are asking about the ILS game as a stand alone performance probably not much. I thought PJ's effort was outstanding.

                          The line you gave is very good, although 4-13 (30.8%) shooting inside the arc and 2-5 (40.0%) from the FT line could use some polishing up.

                          The problem is I think most fans expectations coming into the season would have PJ averaging the kind of numbers he put up last night. So far, it is not happening. Perhaps, that is simply too much to ask.

                          On the other hand, if PJ continues to give the kind of effort he gave last night, I think he will end up having a very solid year. We just need more working parts in the overall mix of the team.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by SubGod22
                            And on our last second shot last night I wonder how many were thinking the same thing I was?

                            Get the ball to Durley!!!
                            Durley went to a spot inside the 3-pt line where the defense was clogging things up. It wouldn't have done any good.

                            Unless you're saying HCGM should have run a play for Durley, which he might have. Marshall said the play broke down, but not as bad as at the end of the UMKC game.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by SubGod22
                              And on our last second shot last night I wonder how many were thinking the same thing I was?

                              Get the ball to Durley!!!
                              Exactly!


                              T


                              ...8)

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                              • #30
                                disappointment

                                How far we have fallen in 1.5 seasons.

                                Poor offensive fundamentals.

                                Losing to UTA at home/

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