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  • #16
    Originally posted by AZ Shocker
    Awesome questions Cold. :good:
    (Much appreciated because I was asking the same questions while watching the games on ShockerVision).

    But...me thinks Rosewood is smart. Perhaps even a "wise" man. lol

    The answer(s) has to be somewhere in the middle.

    Please continue discussing.... :clap:



    If I had to add one thing to this topic is that WSU is still in a SERIOUS "adjustment" period. And will be all year. MT was a totally different coach who recruited totally different players from what GM usually recruits.

    Here's the difference IMO...

    MT = Conservative (Cerebral players needed - not necessarily instinctive)
    GM = Not Conservative (Instinctive players needed - not necessarily cerebral)

    In other words...different offensive philoshophies. Hence...lack of points this season as players adjust to different system. Question is...can they adjust? Or are the current players unavailable to learn/play Marshalls game???
    Actually, I think just the opposite is true. Marshall requires players who are BOTH cereberal and instinctual. To execute his style of complex offense, full of set plays complimented by motion, requires much more memorization and BBIQ than a pure motion offense. Further, Marshall's changing defenses requires great mental acquity.

    Please tell me how Marshall's system is easier to implement and execute than a system that features two components: motion offense and man-to-man defense.

    It is true that Marshall needs different players - complete players.

    Comment


    • #17
      I agree. Marshall's system is very complex and does require a high basketball IQ. In my opinion, the main difference between Marshall's system and Turgeon's system is that Marshall's requires better athletes deeper on the roster. WSU doesn't have that right now.

      Comment


      • #18
        I think some are overreacting to our losses. We knew the season would be a head scratcher. Yes any loss is disappointing but with two key players on the bench we played decent (but not well) and still held a close game. I want them to make their mistakes now, even at the cost of a few games, so that they can make a strong finish in the 'Lou.
        That rug really tied the room together.

        Comment


        • #19
          The fans at any venue in the country for about any sport are bound to get involved in the games wether it be positive or negative...It doesn't mean they are not true shocker fans because they are making noise and saying things...If anything it means they are true shocker fans...That is part of it. The Shocker Fan world is not get all soft and buttery is it? We can only be positive and say positive things...come on now..thats just to fluffy for me.

          Comment


          • #20
            The sky is falling!!!

            Clod=NOOB.
            I ain't fallin fo no banana in tha tailpipe

            Comment


            • #21
              I think Cold posed some good questions, ones that seem to defy 'common sense' on some levels. When plans fail, such questions are always lying around.

              Rose, had some good replies, although I would like to point out 1 past fact,
              Matt was a sophmore when we made the Sweet Sixteen run, and he did a bang up job, in fact, you might say he played 'above hisself' at that time.

              Comment


              • #22
                Cold I think the answer to your “sky is falling” rhetorical questions boils down to MT missing out on his last 2-3 years of recruiting for this program, only to be compounded by his very last class never showing up. Answer this for me – How the fruq do you expect to recover from 3-4 supposedly good recruits backing out of their commitment at the last hour?

                Comment


                • #23
                  I was never convinced the Evan Baker was that good, and obviously had an unspoken attitude problem. Here is Denzel Bowles stats:

                  View the profile of James Madison Dukes Forward Denzel Bowles on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.


                  so far this year.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Snapshot9
                    I was never convinced the Evan Baker was that good, and obviously had an unspoken attitude problem. Here is Denzel Bowles stats:

                    View the profile of James Madison Dukes Forward Denzel Bowles on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.


                    so far this year.
                    im sorry but that dont mean nothing, hes a freshmen and is playing behind a stacked team. He dont have a chance to play right now.
                    Follow me on twitter: https://twitter.com/Shox_KCfan

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Snapshot9
                      I was never convinced the Evan Baker was that good, and obviously had an unspoken attitude problem. Here is Denzel Bowles stats:

                      View the profile of James Madison Dukes Forward Denzel Bowles on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.


                      so far this year.
                      Snap is right. It looked like MT tenure was done at Wichita State. The last couple recruiting classed looked dull and it is showing now.
                      ________
                      Oregon Dispensary
                      http://youtube.com/watch?v=XTOEV6f7jB4

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Snapshot9
                        I was never convinced the Evan Baker was that good, and obviously had an unspoken attitude problem. Here is Denzel Bowles stats:

                        View the profile of James Madison Dukes Forward Denzel Bowles on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.


                        so far this year.
                        Baker may not be that good (I do not know how he is playing this year) but I do not necessarily think the kid had an attitude problem. It was my understanding that Baker not coming to WSU had less to do with Baker's reluctance and more to do with CGM's evaluation.

                        Bowles; however, would have been a good player at WSU.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          As far as Clemente vs Sampay, we got the better deal with Ramon. His work ethic is much better (probably because of his eatem up attitude, a Queens, NY charateristic), and Ramon will outplay him in overall stats.

                          If Mantas can 'turn it on', he could be the creator in the middle we need, and if Ellis can just give us 4-6 points a game, it could make a big difference in how dangerous we are on Offense. Sometimes, just a couple of adjustments can make a big difference.

                          Phil and PJ's efforts in the ISU game were commendable, especially after the Drake game. And with Gal running the point, we don't get the points we need from him, as he is one of our best shooters normally.

                          Our players do not shoot particularly good with a hand in their face, as we do not really have quick release type shooters, so I am very surprised that CGM does not run more screens. Turgeon wasn't big on screens either. They give a player that extra half second to get set before shooting, which I think our players need.

                          And a point of contention with me, as I had with Turgeon, is our players do
                          not play the perimeter tight enough at all, which leaves open to get eaten up by 3 point shooters, and the MVC has plenty of them, just wait for Creighton with P'Allen Stinnett, or Bradley.

                          Actually, I see more similiarities between CGM and Turgeon than differences, except CGM defense is more solid, he adjusts better during game time, and he pressures more than Turgeon. Why we didn't pressure during the first 4 minutes of the 2nd half, I don't know. After 2 straight baskets, he should have pressured, slowed things down, ate clock. Boo had way too much 'room' to work his offense. Everyone knew that ISU would be coming on when the 2nd half started.

                          Say what you will about MT, but he is 13-1 so far.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ISASO
                            Actually, I think just the opposite is true. Marshall requires players who are BOTH cereberal and instinctual. To execute his style of complex offense, full of set plays complimented by motion, requires much more memorization and BBIQ than a pure motion offense. Further, Marshall's changing defenses requires great mental acquity.

                            It is true that Marshall needs different players - complete players.
                            Yeah I agree. Both coaches need cerebral players. I didn't mean GM didn't need basketball-smart kids. Sorry if it came off that way...

                            My point was that the players we have now are just not "instinctive" enough in Marshalls system right now. Getting there...but still hesitant and thinking too much. No doubt it would be difficult to all the sudden learn a new system in one year when you've been molded into MT's system the last few years.

                            I have faith though. We may look like an entirely different team in mid-to late Feb. :clap:
                            FINAL FOURS:
                            1965, 2013

                            NCAA Tournament:
                            1964, 1965, 1976, 1981, 1985, 1987, 1988, 2006, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2021

                            NIT Champs - 1 (2011)

                            AP Poll History of Wichita St:
                            Number of Times Ranked: 157
                            Number of Times Ranked #1: 1
                            Number of Times Top 5: 32 (Most Recent - 2017)
                            Number of Times Top 10: 73 (Most Recent - 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017)

                            Highest Recent AP Ranking:
                            #3 - Dec. 2017
                            #2 ~ March 2014

                            Highest Recent Coaches Poll Ranking:
                            #2 ~ March 2014
                            Finished 2013 Season #4

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by emcfizzle
                              The sky is falling!!!

                              Clod=NOOB.
                              People who say NOOB=Serious D-Bag

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I don't think Cold is saying the sky is falling. I think he brings up questions and frustrations that lots of Shocker fans have asked themselves over the years.

                                How is it with a great facility and great attendance that we've won 1 MVC crown in the last 25 years? It is a bit perplexing when you look at SIU.

                                On the other hand, CU has only won 1 outright MVC crown during Altman's tenure, though they've made the tourney almost as much during his tenure as WSU has in our entire history.

                                Comment

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