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Wichita State (#16) vs Houston Game Thread

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  • Originally posted by Aargh View Post

    When WSU's perimeter ball handlers are closely guarded, they will ALWAYS call for a high ball screen and pull the post player away from the basket. They will ALWAYS fail to execute a pick and roll, and WSU doesn't seem to use a pick and pop. The ball handler will never curl around the screener to drive to the basket.
    When they run their ball screen offense they don't look for the roll player at all. It's like they don't know where the play should go. Most of the time the roll player has been open and they don't even look for him.

    The same could be said when they actually manage to shift the defense they are still not looking for a weak side cutter etc.. It's open they are mostly looking the wrong direction or just content to dribble. I have to imagine they understand what motion they are running and what the goals are when they run a particular set but lately it's just a dribble fest or if they do finally pick up on it, it's late and either keep dribbling or force the pass to a now guarded player.

    The post has been doubled for many years, the offensive sets have not changed much. Shockingly they were not prepared and didn't know what to do when there was a double team on the ball.

    You can't run the offense from near half court and expect to get anything good from it with under 10 seconds on the shot clock.

    As for the defensive side they just were not inspired until it was too late. I don't have an answer for that. It's a "want to" issue as far as I'm concerned. It was obvious they were not working hard for 2/3 of the game.

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    • Great points Shockref, If Marshall or staff could only read some posts from this thread it might help them out. Your points are spot on.

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      • Originally posted by proshox View Post

        They still flashed a defender to AM on his rolls.... not sure he was ever open for the pocket pass.
        Agree, there was one time maybe we legitimately missed him. The rest of the time would’ve resulted in a turnover.

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        • I am very disappointed in the effort the last 4 games and am not of course I hate the last two losses and the manner in which those losses transpired. I felt that going into the conference the team was becoming very cavalier.

          Minus WV, the team did a great job of playing angry. Somewhere near the VCU win I thought the ‘play angry’ attitude turned into smugness. (ranking went to their head?) That said, I am not surprised to see this correction happen. I think the correction actually began in the ECU game, but the lessons were negated due to the win. The effort in the Temple game and first half of the Hou. game was the bottom. The effort reminded me off the Cohen days....giving up rebounds....losing every 50/50 battle, etc. We are going to be outmatched athletically in many of these AAC matchups but we know the formula to win. We are 15-3 (which ALL OF US would have taken in October) and we have one of the finest coaches in basketball. We will be fine, Lets get back to playing Shocker basketball

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          • I'm pissed that we lost the last two games that really weren't even close. However, I have to remind myself that we have 5 players getting regular PT who are in their first season of D1 basketball, (high major basketball to boot). We got spoiled thinking these 5 guys adjusted to the learning curve quickly. Throw in the DD situation along with one big man sophomore who hasn't shown a modicum of improvement from his freshman season and there is going to be future losses that are similar to these last two.

            Thankfully, we'll continue our consecutive streak of winning at least 20 games in a season, and we'll probably get back into the NCAA Tourney as a 9 - 11 seed. I'm not giving up hope that this team and HCGM won't be able to figure it out, but expect more bumps and bruises along the way. I'm thinking a 22 - 9 regular season record at this point.

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            • Two honest questions?

              How often do you see a WSU player make a quick pass without first holding the ball, dribbling the ball, making a pump fake, or, more likely, a combination of those?

              How often do you see WSU make TWO quick passes?

              I understand we are running plays to free up a player, but so does the opposition by now.

              I felt that our players looked very frustrated in the half-court offense because it appeared that the defense had answers for whatever we were trying. It seems our only successful offense lately comes from fast breaks or before the opposing defense has set up.

              I pretty much agree with ShockRef , Aargh , and molly jabali .

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              • Originally posted by ShockTalk View Post
                Two honest questions?

                How often do you see a WSU player make a quick pass without first holding the ball, dribbling the ball, making a pump fake, or, more likely, a combination of those?

                How often do you see WSU make TWO quick passes?

                I understand we are running plays to free up a player, but so does the opposition by now.

                I felt that our players looked very frustrated in the half-court offense because it appeared that the defense had answers for whatever we were trying. It seems our only successful offense lately comes from fast breaks or before the opposing defense has set up.

                I pretty much agree with ShockRef , Aargh , and molly jabali .
                Our players are constantly out muscled and out hustled by the opponents (really since ECU). We have to play quicker and smarter. We need more sets that will get guys open shots and less whatever the hell we’re doing. More effort on rebounding. Houston showed us what real rebounding is. Trying to take your guy one on one and then taking a contested shot into 2 defenders and getting your crap stuffed has to stop immediately. If anyone thinks South Florida is gonna roll over, think again. We’re a mid to low level conference team right now if we keep everything status quo.

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                • Originally posted by ShockTalk View Post
                  How often do you see a WSU player make a quick pass without first holding the ball, dribbling the ball, making a pump fake, or, more likely, a combination of those?
                  .
                  like.........never

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                  • Remember when we used to play uptempo, vary our pressure, play a ton of guys in the first half, then the other team would wear down in the second half? Remember that?

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                    • The guys will either run the stuff they are taught or not. Motion and sets only work with precision execution. We had to blow that up last year and go high pick and roll. I think now is the time to figure out the identity of this team. We are guard heavy, short up front but fairly deep. We’ve been scouted and those weaknesses have been exposed. Time to play to our strengths which is create offense off of our defense. Our guys do a good job of anticipating and playing the passing lanes. Our secondary break is pretty good at getting wide open looks for our shooters. If nothing else it will wear the other team out a bit. The other option is to start playing more zone but that doesn’t create offense and rebounding would be a big problem.

                      Not looking like you look on video the entire season is how you steal games at this point unless you are running your offense at an unstoppable level or you have FVV as your point guard.




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                      • Well 3G should certainly should have his guys' attention. Whether or not he sees any need to make major system changes at this point or he thinks they just need to do our current stuff better but with a more team-oriented approach and mind-set remains to be seen.

                        Our next two opponents played each other yesterday with UCF winning at home over USF 55-54. Perhaps the two best AAC opponents we could draw in which to try to figure things our a regain some confidence. That said if we don't get things turned around we could lose both of these games and if that happens who knows where this season is headed.

                        We'll just have to see what happens.

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                        • Too much 1on1 garbage, little to no ball movement, horrible shot selection, waiting too long to shoot, effortless rebounding, etc. Those are the issues associated with this team right now. I have seen zero adjustments made from loss 2 to loss 3 in consecutive games. The team just went through the motions and it didn't seem like the cared one ****. Do they not understand that is how you blow NCAA possibilities? Pretty much the entire team has now gotten ahold of the selfish disease. Dribble, dribble, shoot. If they don't start caring more about assists than they do their individual scoring, you might as well lock this team up for the NIT right now.

                          And yes, Marshall is the one allowing it to happen. He needs to make some adjustments too. We aren't playing Abilene Christian and Texas Southern anymore.
                          Deuces Valley.
                          ... No really, deuces.
                          ________________
                          "Enjoy the ride."

                          - a smart man

                          Comment


                          • When we were moving the ball around quickly, and scoring was even, never sure who was going to lead the team in scoring... Is when we were at our best this year, and I saw deep tourney possibilities.

                            This team I've seen the last few games is the bad, self destructive version of Shox. It's not working guys, so go ahead and go back to doing what you were doing ok? That'd be great, thanks.

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                            • Originally posted by asiseeit View Post
                              Our two best players today were probably NF and AM. Now, a few games before the conference started I warned
                              that we needed to start playing two big men at the same time cause we were going to see teams where we needed
                              it. GM did it for a minute or two at a time a couple games and that was it. Going into the season I thought our
                              biggest weakness was at PF and I still believe it. Having said that, if we finally do start seeing a bigger lineup it
                              has to be accompanied with more zone where the two big guys can play with their backs to the basket. AM was key
                              in our turning last season around. I hear the laughs out there but he could be the key again this season. We will
                              never know if he doesn't get some opportunity earlier. We play so many high ball screens but seldom get the ball
                              to the screener coming off of it. Playing two big guys would probably force the defense to sag and play three down
                              low to guard them leaving only two to guard our three on the perimeter. This would create much better perimeter
                              looks. Then, when we go to a smaller line up we switch back to man and spread the court. Changing defenses also
                              helps to disrupt the other team and we might find that one is working better than the other. Bottom line right now is
                              Tuesday night's game is now critical to our season. We better come out with some intensity at the opening tip and
                              never let up,
                              JE was our best player when he could stay on the court. He had a +/- of 6. NF had a +/1 of 0. Everyone else on the team had negative +/-.

                              JB had a +/- of -12, which doesn't help the team since he's the player with the ball in his hands most of the time. Others that were in minus double-digit +/- were Poor Bear at -15 and Dexter Dennis at -14.

                              As bad as Erik was playing the Temple game and a lot of this game, his +/- was only -1.

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                              • Is there less motion offense and more ball screen? Seems the latter encourages indivicual tendencies.
                                "I not sure that I've ever been around a more competitive player or young man than Fred VanVleet. I like to win more than 99.9% of the people in this world, but he may top me." -- Gregg Marshall 12/23/13 :peaceful:
                                ---------------------------------------
                                Remember when Nancy Pelosi said about Obamacare:
                                "We have to pass it, to find out what's in it".

                                A physician called into a radio show and said:
                                "That's the definition of a stool sample."

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