Wichita State vs Cincinnati Game Thread

[im4wsu]

asiseeit "the cardinal rule for ref's is NOT to be the determining factor in a game - they certainly WERE
today and absolutely ruined a great game AND determined the winner at the five minute mark. "

Agree except for the last part after AND. They determined the winner when Gregg took off his jacket after the Shockers were called for their 4th personal foul. That ref had his fangs out for Marshall from the opening tip.

[im4wsu]

Aargh "
You got to walk away from that crap. as quick as Stevenson got T'd, I imagine he said one of the forbidden words. You can jaw a lot if you avoid certain words."

Stevenson walked away, so far in fact that the ref had to physically buast between Cumby and another player and still took 3-4 steps before getting close enough to Erik to give the T signal.

[im4wsu]

He was missing wide open, uncontested layups. That’s not terrible?

How is that different than anybody else on the team?

[SHOXAAC]

People get all bent out of shape about the foul differential. Now before I start my case, let it be clear these clown refs were particularly brutally bad yesterday. Generally speaking, refs are not commissioned to call fouls even. This component of the game is impacted and guided to the flow of the game and the dynamics of the two teams. Cincy, like most other teams we play, have seasoned, quick and crafty guards who challenge the lane on a consistent basis. We don't. When you do challenge the lane there is a greater chance to be fouled and shoot free throws. Our most seasoned players, MM & SHJ don't have that type of game consistently in their bag of tricks. MM can't dribble and SHJ moves around the perimeter looking for a shot like a caught fish flopping on the river bank. In yesterdays game MM & SHJ took more than 50% of the entire teams shots, so there just isn't any content for drawing fouls given their style of play. The other guards on the team aren't, can't, won't, shouldn't, etc...drive the ball. Let's face it Torres is a bust, Burton can't shoot, isn't willing to shoot, scared to shoot (you pick the correct answer Alex), Dex can't consistently stay on the court to actually see what he is capable of and Erik doesn't seem to have the quickness or savvy at this point to comply with driving the lane. On the year our opponents have attempted 100 more free throws...100!!! And it is even a bigger per game difference in conference, because we are facing guards that have the talent, ability and willingness to challenge the lane. This is how college basketball looks in 2019 and beyond. If you don't challenge the lane, take your place in the bottom half of your conference...or go get players who can intelligently challenge the paint. That my friends is on the COACHES!!!

[WuDrWu]

1. No doubt.
2. Not equally bad, egregiously worse. Not because the 1st wasn't wrong, but because the charge call was beyond laughable.
3. True, but also could be 3-14. We're close to winning our share of 50/50 games. Against a very tough schedule. At Christmas I was resigned to an 0-5 start in conference, and was hoping it wouldn't be 0-7. These guys were a whisper from 3-2. 500 in conference was little more than a dream. Now I wonder if we go back to Cincy with a chance to get to 500 before running the rest of the table. I know I know, highs and lows. Markis is making insane plays to keep us alive too often. But this team is getting better and with a little success, and a lot of health, nobody is going to enjoy playing them in 6 weeks.

[asiseeit]

1. Thanks Stickboy46 for the link. I had pointed it out from memory twice and there were only 1-2
who noticed ES getting pushed. I think his reaction to that is what really made him say something the ref
T'd him for but if the ref had T'd Cincy's center ES or GM either one would not have been T'd. Both are
passionate guys and that's the kind of guys I want around.

2. Almost equally as bad was the call on JB moments later for a charge when Cincy's defender was not
even close to being in a good position for a charge. JB's shot was goal tended and there should have
been an and one. Another three points ! Then there was just the totally lopsided foul calls all game.

3. Was also thinking last night that despite our disappointing record we could easily be 10-7 instead
without the two games the ref's totally took us out of. The team is playing hard and GM is coaching hard
with a great deal of passion. I'm okay with both. Really glad we are in the AAC now !

4. Our bench was 7-12 from the field and we now have three serviceable centers maybe four going forward.
I have been down on the seniors but MM is making me a believer. I just wish SHJ would use his
quickness more to break down defenses and dish more.

[SHOXAAC]

And one could make a case for zero T's. A good crew would have given stern verbal warnings to all involved, but this was not a good crew. They should go back through the ranks starting with the ole games I used to have on my driveway 8 1/2 foot goal wars with my boys.

[wusphlash]

Believing there would be a lot of frustration this year, what with youth and inexperience, I really thought Gregg would have more than one T by now. Considering his competitive nature I think he's done really well.

[molly jabali]

Yeah, I should clarify... there ARE hateable coaches ( Boeheim, Muller, Williams DO come to mind).... but not just because they are ‘opposing’... it looks like Gregg and Cronin have a genuine like for each other

[pinstripers]

Prolly starts with something like "you can't guard me, skinny little white boy"

[another shocker]

'sooner rather than later.

[WSUwatcher]

Furthermore, Cumberland went out of his way to confront Stevenson. A double technical should have been called, IMO.

Cumberland was getting the Michael Jordan treatment all game -- as he did in this case, which wasn't much of a foul and certainly would not have been called the other way -- so it's no surprise he got away with starting the confrontation here. Once Stevenson talked back and got the T, the game was effectively gone, so Marshall's understandable ire didn't matter. I'm glad he backed his guy.

Weren't we supposed to see an upgrade in officiating once WSU escaped the Valley? Not in this game.

[ShockerFever]

Doc, I honestly thought the same thing but didn't wanna mention it. I'm just trying to think of reasons why ES was the only one rung up on that clip and I kept going back to your question. Just absolutely mind-boggling.

And yes these d-bags need to be retrained back at the Y for an extended period of time.

[Jhook89]

There is quite the wide range between having to be held back from going after a ref and sitting down and smiling...

[WuDrWu]

I've been on the .500 train since the summer for the most part. These kids are performing better than I thought they would. The thing is, we all see plenty of room for improvement. If they can stay positive, they will get better, and sooner than later.

Today's bench debacle aside, Gregg has done an excellent job getting the team to this point.