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  • #16
    Originally posted by im4wsu View Post
    MM had only five turnovers, I thought it was seven.
    Kennedy said 7. ESPN says 7. CNS says 5.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Husker4Shockers View Post
      A lot of posters seem to feel that MM and SHJ should be on the bench; I've even seen posts from folks who'd be happy if one or both never played another minute. Then there's those who think Ricky oughta take it back to JUCO, etc. So I guess I'd ask those folks: just who do you think should be on the floor?
      We simply don't have enough guys to change it much.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by pinstripers View Post

        Kennedy said 7. ESPN says 7. CNS says 5.
        Now ESPN says 5. I'm certain it said 7 last night at the end of the game.
        "I not sure that I've ever been around a more competitive player or young man than Fred VanVleet. I like to win more than 99.9% of the people in this world, but he may top me." -- Gregg Marshall 12/23/13
        ---------------------------------------
        Remember when Nancy Pelosi said about Obamacare:
        "We have to pass it, to find out what's in it".

        A physician called into a radio show and said:
        "That's the definition of a stool sample."

        Comment


        • 1972Shocker
          1972Shocker commented
          Editing a comment
          The box score at goShockers.com shows 5 today. But the live box score in ESPN last night did show 7.

      • #19
        1972, i was certain it did, but pulling up ESP?N now it shows 5.
        "I not sure that I've ever been around a more competitive player or young man than Fred VanVleet. I like to win more than 99.9% of the people in this world, but he may top me." -- Gregg Marshall 12/23/13
        ---------------------------------------
        Remember when Nancy Pelosi said about Obamacare:
        "We have to pass it, to find out what's in it".

        A physician called into a radio show and said:
        "That's the definition of a stool sample."

        Comment


        • #20
          Whatever the number is, it is too many for a senior leader.

          Comment


          • #21
            Fun with numbers:
            Name Min % O-Rating % Possessions eFG% TS% O-Reb% D-Reb% Ast % T/O% Blk% Stl% Fouls Called/40 Fouls Drawn/40
            Player A 79.7 110.5 26.4 50.0 55.1 5.1 13.4 6.0 11.9 .3 2.0 2.7 5.4
            Player B 62.8 113.7 26.9 51.4 56.5 10.5 14.6 5.5 14.3 4.3 1.8 4.1 5.3

            Player B has a much better O-Reb but player A turns it over less eating into that a good bit. Player B gets way more blocks, but player A is playing many more minutes at a similar efficiency and fouling less. Overall B definitely has an edge but these are pretty similar players. Any guesses who they are?

            Comment


            • ShockCrazy
              ShockCrazy commented
              Editing a comment
              Nope. This is a historical comparison. And The usage alone should tip off it's not Dex. He needs to get his usage up.

            • pie n eye
              pie n eye commented
              Editing a comment
              A - McDuffie, B - Early?

              Shot in the dark.

            • ShockCrazy
              ShockCrazy commented
              Editing a comment
              Yup! Early on the Final Four team.

          • #22
            Couple of questions, ShockCrazy. I'm not that familiar with using these % stats, so I have a couple of questions on there use here.

            1) Is comparing % stats between 2 players, that play the same position, but on two totally different teams, one a very balanced, experienced, and much stronger team, the other very inexperienced at most all positions, going to skew the numbers?

            2) While Early was a Junior, he was in his 1st year of D-I ball, McDuffie is a 4 year D-I Senior who has had three previous years of experience playing with very talented teams. Is that also not going to skew the numbers?

            3) You may end up with very similar numbers, may there existence probably come from very different reasons?

            Comment


            • #23
              Originally posted by ShockTalk View Post
              Couple of questions, ShockCrazy. I'm not that familiar with using these % stats, so I have a couple of questions on there use here.

              1) Is comparing % stats between 2 players, that play the same position, but on two totally different teams, one a very balanced, experienced, and much stronger team, the other very inexperienced at most all positions, going to skew the numbers?

              2) While Early was a Junior, he was in his 1st year of D-I ball, McDuffie is a 4 year D-I Senior who has had three previous years of experience playing with very talented teams. Is that also not going to skew the numbers?

              3) You may end up with very similar numbers, may there existence probably come from very different reasons?
              1) Absolutely that will have an effect. But that definitely favors Markis in terms of difficulty. Cle had 2 other big time seniors to help shoulder the load in Malcolm and Carl. And hell Malcolm was able to create a lot for Cle, and Markis definitely does not have that creator. And that's even before we talk about experienced role players, Orupke and Demetric. Then you even have sophomore Tekele Cotton who had more D1 minutes played than SHJ and Asbjorn combined coming into this year.

              2) That's a wash imo. Markis is veeeery young for a 4th year senior having only turned 21 in September. Cle was the same age his junior year. Also Markis had TWO offseasons derailed with injuries. Plus last season was pretty ineffective with so much missed time.

              3) The fact is Markis is being asked to do a lot on an incredibly inexperienced team, not only is he living up to what is being asked, he's doing it at an ELITE level.

              Comment


              • #24
                The offensive rebounds stat really sticks out - and that one is less affected by other team members.

                Early was "another guy on the team". McDuffie is the go to guy. That's quite a difference.

                I have a feeling that one of these 2 players will never sniff the NBA.
                The future's so bright - I gotta wear shades.
                We like to cut down nets and get sized for championship rings.

                Comment


                • #25
                  Originally posted by Aargh View Post
                  The offensive rebounds stat really sticks out - and that one is less affected by other team members.

                  Early was "another guy on the team". McDuffie is the go to guy. That's quite a difference.

                  I have a feeling that one of these 2 players will never sniff the NBA.
                  Actually offensive rebounds is dependent on a lot of factors. It's no coincidence that Markis's O-reb rate has decreased as he has played more and more on the perimeter. Also you don't think the monster that was Carl Hall on the glass attracted a LOT of attention to clear space for Cle? Cause I do. And Cle was the go to guy, it's not even a question, his usage was 6% higher than the next guy(Markis is about 5% above Jaime and SHJ). Not sniff the NBA? You are aware he's on almost every draft board in the 50s-60s right?

                  Comment


                  • ShockingButTrue
                    ShockingButTrue commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I've always believed that offensive rebounds are the domain of the "athletes."

                  • pie n eye
                    pie n eye commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Definitely helps to be athletic but I’m not sure it’s the main factor. Postitioning, anticipation and desire might be more important to rebounding than athleticism.

                  • ShockCrazy
                    ShockCrazy commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Rebounds are really hard to grade, there is obviously skills involved and athleticism is massive but there is more too it. There is a lot of schematic things that go on. Teams almost always have some sort of structure on who will crash and who will focus on getting back, and if systematically your position/or role in the offense leads you to be in the get back group, then obviously the o-reb rate will suffer. For instance this year JB and Dex have really high o-reb rates for their position. But I'll hazard a guess that they are crashing more often than they should and it's leading to run-outs. Over time I bet those rates normalize as they learn where and when they can crash. In fact similarly athletic wings, Tekele Cotton and Zach Brown both had their o-reb rates decrease over their careers.

                • #26
                  What's the point you're trying to make with this comparison? Are you saying Markis is about as good as Cle was? Or that he's contributing as much as Cle did? Or something else?

                  If Cle were on this team instead of Markis, do you think he would have the same numbers?

                  Comment


                  • ShockCrazy
                    ShockCrazy commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Oh he's definitely contributing more than Cle did. Just the nature of how much he's having to play, no assertions on who is better. But in general people need to get a grip with reality. Will Markis make some bad plays? Yup. Is he going to have another bad half at some point? Yup. But he also is doing a really damn good job with the situation he's in.
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