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Recant Regards Ralph Miller
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We are not discussing this Shocker team; we are discussing Ralph Miller versus Marshall regards the greatest Shocker Coach
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I don't think you understand just how unreasonable you sound and how unreasonable this post is.
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Originally posted by FadedCrown View PostWhat is this abysmal excuse for a post?
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Why this post? Get a clue. This is a young team that is learning to win. The wins will come. Coach Marshall had them in position to win but he cannot make the passes for them.
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Originally posted by Shockm View Post
"The more NCAA success that Marshall has had referred to his NCAA Tourney success. During this age of NCAA Basketball, the success WSU has had for the past 7-8 years is nothing but remarkable. If we follow up this season which hopefully approaches 500, with a more successful run at the American Championship, our place on the National Landscape will continue.
So Miller didn't have 8 Freshmen? I don't really care who is the greatest coach in our history. I just think that our inexperience is showing, but our talent level is still good. No program can win without experience against good quality teams. We should have taken the 11 point lead we built with less than 4 minutes remaining and won but our inexperience showed and you can't get experience without playing games against good quality competition.
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Originally posted by Shocker1976 View Post
The answer to your question is YES Ralph's first season (51-52) he had 4 freshmen and fillers (JUCO and walk-on). He finished season 11-19; competing in the #5 ranked conference with two ranked teams (St Louis AP #5 highest ranked). Second season (52-53) went 16-11 with 4 Sophomores and fillers; third season (53-54) went 27-4, AP #11 during season.
Season 1959-60 went 14-12 with 4 Sophomores - Shockers played AP #1 Cincinnati, AP #4 Bradley, and St Louis AP #15 during league play.
Attached link provides excellent resource information.
So Miller didn't have 8 Freshmen? I don't really care who is the greatest coach in our history. I just think that our inexperience is showing, but our talent level is still good. No program can win without experience against good quality teams. We should have taken the 11 point lead we built with less than 4 minutes remaining and won but our inexperience showed and you can't get experience without playing games against good quality competition.
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Originally posted by Shockm View Post
And yet a good number of fans went after the future HOF coach and wanted him gone even though over an extended period of time, Wichita State was considered a nationally relevant program. My question to you would be to ask if Ralph ever coached a team with only one part time starter returning. Marshall has had much more NCAA success than Ralph but if Ralph had stayed in Wichita, he would have given WSU a Top 50 winning coach. I consider Ralph on par with the top coaches in history. However, most of those coaches who built a power didn’t move on. They stayed for most of their career.
Season 1959-60 went 14-12 with 4 Sophomores - Shockers played AP #1 Cincinnati, AP #4 Bradley, and St Louis AP #15 during league play.
Attached link provides excellent resource information.
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Also in Ralph's 1st year in 1951-52 only 16 teams were in the NCAA Tournament field. During Ralph's final 12 years at WSU the field was between 22-25 teams. The route the NCAA Tournament was winning the Missouri Valley Conference regular season championship. No easy feat in the Valley of Death years.
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Originally posted by Shockm View Post
And yet a good number of fans went after the future HOF coach and wanted him gone even though over an extended period of time, Wichita State was considered a nationally relevant program. My question to you would be to ask if Ralph ever coached a team with only one part time starter returning. Marshall has had much more NCAA success than Ralph but if Ralph had stayed in Wichita, he would have given WSU a Top 50 winning coach. I consider Ralph on par with the top coaches in history. However, most of those coaches who built a power didn’t move on. They stayed for most of their career.
As to Marshall's "...more NCAA success" please consider the quality of the teams played by Ralph's Shockers versus Marshall. For example, I remember a three game road trip during which Ralph's Shockers played three highly ranked teams earning a possible #1 Poll ranking if not for an out of his a** last second basket by Cazzie Russell at Michigan.
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I was predicting/hoping for 18-20 wins; not IMO a possibility given where the Shockers are today. Hopefully the Shockers can finish with 12 -14 wins but if Marshall continues to coach as he has thus far then for me 5 conference wins is possible - a disaster.Last edited by Shocker1976; January 7, 2019, 06:16 AM.
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Establishing superiority is a point on which we can disagree
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Originally posted by Shocker1976 View PostAfter today's loss to Temple, I want to recant my posts regarding Marshall surpassing IMO Ralph Miller as the greatest Shocker Mens Basketball Coach. I was premature drawing such a conclusion.
I was very young when Ralph was coaching the Shockers but I cannot recall a single season in which he coached the Shockers where the Shockers would clearly establish their superiority in the first half and then lose the game(s) in the second half. I also recall that Ralph's record with the Shockers season after season was built on playing the best teams in the country both out of conference and in conference; i.e. playing in the Valley of Death rather than in the Valley of Mediocrity.
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Originally posted by Shocker1976 View Post
I don't live in Kansas so I have to depend on what I see on television and hear from Mike Kennedy via the internet; so I went to Charleston to watch the Shockers. The Shocker play today is not IMO at the level of play they exhibited against Davidson, Appalachian State and Alabama in that tournament. IMO the move to the AAC is revealing regards the Shocker basketball program.
The Shockers' first season in the AAC was disappointing given the experience and quality of the roster. However, this year's performance is going to be a total disaster unless Marshall is capable of coaching this roster and not letting two "lacking" seniors control this season's destiny. IMO the February 9th game against Tulane in Wichita could be the first conference victory for this Shocker team unless Marshall removes his head from rectum defilade.
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Originally posted by Shocker1976 View PostAfter today's loss to Temple, I want to recant my posts regarding Marshall surpassing IMO Ralph Miller as the greatest Shocker Mens Basketball Coach. I was premature drawing such a conclusion.
I was very young when Ralph was coaching the Shockers but I cannot recall a single season in which he coached the Shockers where the Shockers would clearly establish their superiority in the first half and then lose the game(s) in the second half. I also recall that Ralph's record with the Shockers season after season was built on playing the best teams in the country both out of conference and in conference; i.e. playing in the Valley of Death rather than in the Valley of Mediocrity.
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