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Recant Regards Ralph Miller

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  • Shocker1976
    started a topic Recant Regards Ralph Miller

    Recant Regards Ralph Miller

    After today's loss to Temple, I want to recant my posts regarding Marshall surpassing IMO Ralph Miller as the greatest Shocker Mens Basketball Coach. I was premature drawing such a conclusion.

    I was very young when Ralph was coaching the Shockers but I cannot recall a single season in which he coached the Shockers where the Shockers would clearly establish their superiority in the first half and then lose the game(s) in the second half. I also recall that Ralph's record with the Shockers season after season was built on playing the best teams in the country both out of conference and in conference; i.e. playing in the Valley of Death rather than in the Valley of Mediocrity.

  • 60Shock
    commented on 's reply
    If the 1960 game was at the Roundhouse, that was most likely the game. If not,it couldn't have been 1961 because I had graduated in June,1960 and was no longer living in Wichita when the 1961 season began. Sorry it has been around 60 years ago. I have no recollection whether the egg throwing and the hanging and setting fire to the dummy took place at the same date. But, certainly could have.
    Last edited by 60Shock; January 11th, 2019, 08:47 PM.

  • Shockadaisical
    commented on 's reply
    Why would he regret that? It is a fact that the Valley of Ralph Miller's days, heck of Gene Smithson's days was a lot tougher then it has ever been the last decade. This is the reason the Shockers needed to move on. This is actually the stiffest test of Marshall's coaching career( trying to rebuild a roster after it being gutted, in a high level league). Rooting for him and I believe he will get it done. That being said Shocker1976 brings some very valid points to his assertion that at this point in time Ralph Miller is the best coach in Shockers history

  • WstateU
    commented on 's reply
    I have the book put away somewhere and will try and locate it. There's some good quotes I'd like to share in this thread.

  • 60Shock
    replied
    WstateIU, can't sweat to it but now that you mentioned it, the 'egg tossing' does ring a very distant bell.

    And almost as bad, a stuffed dummy was hung and burned in effigy. I know that for a fact as I saw it.

    WstateU commented
    22 hours ago
    Did this game lead to the 'egg tossing' incident at coach Miller's home? I was pretty young at the time and don't recall the details. I believe coach Miller mentioned it in his book, Spanning the Game.

    Leave a comment:


  • Shocker1976
    replied
    1960
    Originally posted by 60Shock View Post

    I don't recall the year, but most likely it was around in 1959 or 1960 time frame, when we blew a huge first half lead, at home, of somewhere around 20-25 points, against a highly rated Bradley team, which we did not beat very often back in those days. Then we came out the second half and instead of continuing what had gotten the huge lead, which was we were out shooting, outrunning, out rebounding them, and were physically outplaying them. But Coach Miller had the team come out and play the same game tactics that Hank Iba at Oklahoma A&M (OK State) used to beat him very frequently at, The Stall. No Shot Clock back then and you could hold on to the ball as long as you wanted by passing it, or dribbling it, until you had a wide open basket, or got fouled. Only problem was that our guys rarely, if ever, practiced it. And of course the lead agonizing disappeared, and we lost.

    This was clearly the most pronounced loss of its type during Coach Miller's time. I should add that other than normal losses, I do not recall that losing leads was a significant problem.
    1960 Bradley beat the Shocks 71-70 and in 1961 score was 57-56 at Henry Levitt Arena, which game do you remember? I can't recall the half time scores but do recall Chet Walker was Bradley's stud!

    Leave a comment:


  • WstateU
    commented on 's reply
    Did this game lead to the 'egg tossing' incident at coach Miller's home? I was pretty young at the time and don't recall the details. I believe coach Miller mentioned it in his book, Spanning the Game.

    Here's a good article following coach Miller's passing...

    "Mike Kennedy, the radio announcer for the Shockers in the '80s and an authority on their history, recounted a story of when Miller took Wichita State to North Texas State in the early 1960s.

    Miller's team had a comfortable lead and the reserves were in. Home fans started throwing debris at the visitors' bench, so Miller went to the opposing coach and asked him to ask the fans to stop.

    "(Blank) you!" came the reply.

    Miller stormed back to his bench, waved his five starters in and blew the home team out by 40 points. Afterward, the North Texas State coach approached Miller and said, "Ralph, you didn't have to pour it on."

    Miller's reply: "(Blank) you!""

    http://mailtribune.com/archive/mille...anned-the-game

  • 60Shock
    replied
    Originally posted by Shocker1976 View Post
    After today's loss to Temple, I want to recant my posts regarding Marshall surpassing IMO Ralph Miller as the greatest Shocker Mens Basketball Coach. I was premature drawing such a conclusion.

    I was very young when Ralph was coaching the Shockers but I cannot recall a single season in which he coached the Shockers where the Shockers would clearly establish their superiority in the first half and then lose the game(s) in the second half. I also recall that Ralph's record with the Shockers season after season was built on playing the best teams in the country both out of conference and in conference; i.e. playing in the Valley of Death rather than in the Valley of Mediocrity.
    I don't recall the year, but most likely it was around in 1959 or 1960 time frame, when we blew a huge first half lead, at home, of somewhere around 20-25 points, against a highly rated Bradley team, which we did not beat very often back in those days. Then we came out the second half and instead of continuing what had gotten the huge lead, which was we were out shooting, outrunning, out rebounding them, and were physically outplaying them. But Coach Miller had the team come out and play the same game tactics that Hank Iba at Oklahoma A&M (OK State) used to beat him very frequently at, The Stall. No Shot Clock back then and you could hold on to the ball as long as you wanted by passing it, or dribbling it, until you had a wide open basket, or got fouled. Only problem was that our guys rarely, if ever, practiced it. And of course the lead agonizing disappeared, and we lost.

    This was clearly the most pronounced loss of its type during Coach Miller's time. I should add that other than normal losses, I do not recall that losing leads was a significant problem.

    Leave a comment:


  • 60Shock
    replied
    Originally posted by Windiwu View Post
    I didn't think freshmen even played in the Ralph Miller era.
    Ralph Miller was the former coach at East High School and his star player was Cleo Littleton. They both came to then WU and Cleo played and starred for a full four years. Taking nothing away from Coach Miller as an outstanding coach, bringing Cleo along with him was the smartest move he ever made.

    Leave a comment:


  • Windiwu
    commented on 's reply
    https://ussporthistory.com/2015/10/2...e-in-the-ncaa/


    I was right... You all are comparing apples to oranges. Coach Miller never had to contend with a team chock full of freshmen.

  • Windiwu
    replied
    I didn't think freshmen even played in the Ralph Miller era.

    Leave a comment:


  • Shocker1976
    commented on 's reply
    I do not agree with your statement "Miller had one HUGE advantage over Marshall. Not a single school south of here, and very many north of here were recruiting black players during Miller's time here. Quite a different environment for recruiting." Miller did start his career by recruiting Cleo Littleton(6' 3" guard/forward) to join him at Wichita but Dave Stallworth was the only black All American to play for Miller. Nate Bowman and Gene Wiley were two 6' 10" centers who went on to play in the NBA.

    Ralph's write-up by journalists often pointed out that he over-achieved with less than stellar players.

  • Shocker1976
    replied
    Originally posted by insaneykaney View Post

    I sincerely hope you woke up this morning and re-read this with regret.
    Sorry to disappoint you but research I did this morning convinces me more than ever that Ralph Miller was the best coach to lead the Shockers; Marshall ranks behind Miller IMO.

    Leave a comment:


  • Shocker1976
    commented on 's reply
    I forgot how young you are; do you know who Ralph Miller was and what he did for Shocker basketball?

    Nothing unreasonable; I am just admitting publicly that I now think I was wrong when I got on the Marshall bandwagon and publicly declared Marshall a better coach than Ralph Miller. IMO Marshall is still a good coach but he is not the best coach to ever have lead the Shockers.

  • Aargh
    replied
    This year will be a "total disaster" compared to the pre-season predictions of a top-3 league finish and on the NCAA bubble. By that metric, I was expecting a "total disaster". We are getting pretty much what we should have been expecting. If you want to win in this league with only 2 returning players (I'm not counting Midtgaard), you better have at least a couple of top-100 guys in there.

    Many SN posters thought this was an elite recruiting class. So far there hasn't been much seen on the court to support that assumption.

    Miller had one HUGE advantage over Marshall. Not a single school south of here, and NOT very many north of here were recruiting black players during Miller's time here. Quite a different environment for recruiting.

    Edit: Added the word "NOT" in my previous paragraph. I meant to say that Miller was one of few coaches actively recruiting black players.
    Last edited by Aargh; January 7th, 2019, 08:58 PM.

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