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[bleednblackngold]

I like this thing about "just build a 40,000 or 50,000 seat stadium". I don't know what that would cost, but it would certainly be multiples of what IBA cost - and that was fought severely by a lot of people. The cost of such a facility would probably be in the $400 to $500 million range. That would be in the range of $800 to $1,000 per man, woman, and child (including homeless people) in Sedgwick County.

And you think politicians could be elected in Wichita or Sedgwick County who would support raising taxes to fund any portion of that?

The population of Sedgwick County is a shade over 500,000. To get 40,000 people into a football venue would require 1 out of every 12 or 13 people in the County into the stands. If you think you're going to get people from Cheney, Newton, Hutchinson, or ElDorado, the people in those places with any interest in college football already have season tickets to KSU, and they'd much rather drive to Manhattan than Wichita to see a game.

WSU can't just declare for D1 status as an FBS school. There's a probationary period that must be played in the FCS Division - and joining the MVFC is definitely not a possibility. Those first 3 years (and possibly more) would have to get those 40,000 fans into the stadium to watch a startup team play (and likely get beat by) the likes of Lamar, Incarnate Word, Southeastern Louisiana, Central Arkansas. Yeah, that's going to draw 40,000 - NOT! You'd be lucky to get 8,000 for games against those teams.

And there's not going to be any TV or bowl revenue.

You're right let's just sit on our hands and do nothing new and just appreciate what we don't have. Smh. Typical Wichita forward thinking!

[BOBB]

You're right let's just sit on our hands and do nothing new and just appreciate what we don't have. Smh. Typical Wichita forward thinking!

Wichita is the poster child for Citizens Against Virtually Everything. In this case they would be right. Wichita has stagnated while similarly sized cities have flourished for a number of reasons. Lack of WSU football has probably hurt enrollment and university prestige, but it hasn't harmed the city's trajectory.

Trying to milk every last nickel out of the aerospace industry rather than foster spinoffs and diversifying the economy in the 80's and '90's did that. Trying to hit a home run through ill conceived and funded real estate development dug the hole deeper.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Ahhhh the C.A.V.E.'rs

We defeated them soundly.

I went up to Peterjohn the day I was pulling the lever for Trump (he was campaigning for something). I walked right up to him with a huge smile and said, "How about that arena huh?" He's like, "Pretty good so far". I should have clocked him. That joker nearly caused the IBA to not exist. He spewed an ocean of Fake News around Wichita confusing and scaring everybody. And it nearly worked. He did all this in the name of doing nothing. This town has a lot of Peterjohn's...


T


...:cool:

[B1ShockFan]

This bring back football talk is just crazy, I was there when we had a football program it was NEVER really supported, why should we expect it to be supported now. No way could we put together a program to play at a level that would draw any real support plus it would DRAIN the athletic department funding. We are spoiled with success of our athletic department and I do not want to see that changed. THE ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT IS JUST SO MUCH STRONGER NOW THAN IT EVER WAS WITH FOOTBALL.

[Aargh]

A good salesman loves to hear objections. Once the objections are clear, that means there is a finite and defined way to solve the problems, overcome the objections and acheive the desired result.

I raised some specific objections. All you have to do to sell the community, the CAVE'rs and the naysayers on supporting college football in Wichita is:

1. Raise $400 or $500 million dollars to build a stadium. (This one's easy, start the games in Cessna - only $10 or $20 mill to make that work)
2. Elect some Commissioners at the City and County level who run on a platform of raising taxes. Trump voters (like Cold) are actually proposing this?
3. Convince 20,000 people (I assume you gave up on #'s 1 & 2) to commit to season tickets (ticket price??) for 3 years to watch games against Incarnate Word, Lamar, etc.
4. Then there's always the $40 mill startup cost that doesn't include improvements to Cessna.

Solve those issues and football works at WSU. Without solutions to those issues, football at WSU is just a dream for people who are unable to deal with facts or details. You could win the lottery and donate all the money to the athletic department and you might be able to give them enough to start and fund football for a few years. It's at that level. It's at the level of the dollars that lottery winners get.

[AZ Shocker]

I kinda agree (always have) about not obsorbing the cost to resurrect our football program. But times have changed and it is cool to dream about it "if" it could be done to truly benefit the university, the city and enrich the lives of the people of Wichita.

And It is kinda "crazy talk" to even think about it as to do it right where it would work in a unique market. I mean geez...it would cost...I don't know...probably damn close to a billion dollars. It would take a monumental effort from Bardo to not only put all the financial backing together but also convince the NCAA for Wichita St. to join full upper tier FBS membership and compete for Bowl games in year one maybe year 2 simply in order to grow and sustain the product (market). He would have to be granted an exception from the rules that currently are in place cause if it was gonna happen...Wichitan's would want the chance to compete at the highest level of college football immediately.

I wonder since we wouldn't necessarily be a new program (since we did have a football program before) if the NCAA would be negotiable to that type of deal? Gaining full FBS membership in year one. Especially considering that we are now in a football league and perhaps a little sympathy from that horrible catastrophe in our history's program.

[SHOCKvalue]

I wish there was was an Aargh filter for football tangents on SN. If there is a dollar sign in front of a number in his football posts, you often times need a conversion factor, most notably when he gets to talking about stadium costs. Six months from now when this comes up again we’ll be talking about stadium costs in the billions I’m quite sure.

Small time mentality is why our school enrollment and city population are stagnant. Somehow, other schools in the modern era have been able to go to 0-FBS without asking all of their fans for the contents of their 401K, sacrifice of first born to the football gods, or otherwise creating a financial apocalypse. Weird.

[ArtVandalay]

We can't afford buying out Todd Butler. Football ain't coming back.

[Kung Wu]

4. Then there's always the $40 mill startup cost that doesn't include improvements to Cessna.

What in the heck is going to cost $40M that doesn't include any renovation costs??

[Jhook89]

The average college football team spends $250,000 on tape each year...

[WstateU]

Looks like the average college football team is getting screwed. I'd sell to Alabama for $200,000.

https://media.giphy.com/media/EouEzI5bBR8uk/giphy.gif

[Sam Axe]

We can't afford buying out Todd Butler. Football ain't coming back.

that pretty much sums it up

[SHOCKvalue]

Houston built what is perhaps the nicest new non-P5 stadium in the country for $130M. It’s slick.

North Texas built a nice joint for $80M, and they didn’t cut corners.

A $500M new stadium would make all but probably 25-ish schools in the entire country jealous, as well as at least one NFL franchise.

I don’t have $130M myself to give, but David Koch gave somewhere around that amount so the .01%ers of the NYC upper crust could have more comfy seats to watch ballets, opera, and whatnot, when they aren’t otherwise busy talking about how evil the Kochs are.

[SHOCKvalue]

We can't afford buying out Todd Butler. Football ain't coming back.

Businesses that don’t exist have trouble producing revenue.

-Confucius

[WstateU]

[Aargh]

North Texas built a nice joint for $80M, and they didn’t cut corners.

About that North Texas stadium, built nearly 10 years ago. (The students REALLY didn't want to pay for it with increased tuitions, but gave in.)

The stadium hosted its first major event on September 10, 2011 when the Mean Green lost 48–23 against the University of Houston Cougars. That game's attendance of 28,075 holds the record for the stadium. Official home attendance figures for the team's first six seasons at Apogee Stadium averaged 18,563 per game, which is 60% of its capacity of 30,850.

That won't hold the 40,000 or 50,000 cheering fans that SN'ers are proposing to have in attendance.

Charles Koch put up $6 mill of the $25 mill to renovate CKA. That was an investment. He's gotten over 10 years of having his name on TV in a positive light for that investment. It was a risk when he made the investment, but he's gotten his money's worth in public relations from that investment. Let's suppose that he forgets he's in business to make money and dumps the $100 mill or so it would take to fund WSU football through the first decade when it's unlikely that the program could possibly be self-supporting.

The American made it pretty clear when WSU joined that WSU was for basketball only. I recall reading that part of the deal was that if WSU ever started football, they would not join The American with their football program. That fits precisely with the timeline of the events leading up to joining the AAC. 1) WSU looks for a new conference. 2) Bardo commissions a study to determine the feasibility of bringing back football. 3) Bardo determines bringing football back is not feasible. 4) The AAC invites WSU to join. The AAC did not and does not want another football member unless it comes from one of the P5 leagues. They certainly don't want a startup that would dilute their schedule.

So, what conference is WSU going to join that's going to get even 10,000 people into the stands? the Mountain West? That would be a major backwards step for basketball.

The intangibles of football are good. Collegiality, sense of community, community pride (hopefully), summertime message board material, etc.

The tangibles are pretty much all negative. Funding, selling tickets, conference affiliation, effect on other sports, etc.

[C0|dB|00ded]

LoL! Aargh's posts need a ruble to dollar currency conversion prior to any discussion on the issue.

The concept of football at WSU is fairly straightforward.

The goal would be to not exceed a $2-4 million yearly shortfall (which would be covered by donor commitments/endowments agreed upon from the onset). This number would be close to the 80's maximum yearly debit when adjusted for inflation.

The stadium ideally would be owned by the city/county and financed with bonds or a sales tax. This would bypass any major roadblocks with the KBOR and offer the city more angles to promote their own interests which is growing the population and mitigating brain drain. Wichita would be able to recruit other sports franchises and bid on large outdoor events in hopes of generating tourism dollars and supporting local business.

If the timing was a little better perhaps the city could have built a multi-purpose outdoor stadium facilitating both football and baseball.



Wichita State has a budget for advertising. A couple years ago they spent $2 million hoping to lure out-of-state students to Kansas. It was mostly a failure.

https://www.kansas.com/news/local/article28720096.html

Football would have many influences on our beloved university and the city, but its biggest impact would likely be regarding campus enrollment. In this respect, WSU could consider football as part of their general advertising budget.

Our men's basketball head coaching salary has gone from $500k to $3.5M in a little over a decade. Football's price tag is likewise manageable with solid planning, leadership, community support, and courage.

The cost for the stadium is obviously the largest expenditure and would be peanuts when compared to the overall impact of the program on the university and city.

http://www.arenafanatic.com/ncaa.html

Scroll down to CSU's new stadium - a little over $200M. $200-300M would be what to expect in downtown Wichita. Money could be saved by building it smaller for room to expand and/or not completely finishing parts till later like Bug'aha did with the Quiet Center.


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...:cool: