ZZZZzzzzZZZZZzzzzzz

[WstateU]

[Signman]

The football issue has many moving parts and connects to the metro area of Wichita in many ways. One might be able to build a case that the lack of football is part of the reason the metro area isn't growing as it should.

I know we are not big fans of MSU and like lots of state universities they are having financial issues but they are growing* and so is Springfield in comparison to Wichita. In the last 7 years Springfield's metro area grew by 5.88% while Wichita only enjoyed a 2.33% MSA growth. Two big differences between the schools are that they do have a football program (such as it is) and a strong Greek system. Both of these contribute greatly to "collegiate atmosphere" and that is something that still can use improvement in Wichita. Make no mistake it has improved since the basketball program has gained such prominence but we have not experienced the enrollment growth we need. I am still optimistic that the "innovation campus" will ultimately pay dividends in enrollment but I for one would still like to see Bardo "double down" with football. Just my 2 cents.

* https://news.missouristate.edu/2017/...llment-record/



Something I posted on shockernet almost 6 years ago, is for the most part still relevant.

September 11th, 2012, 10:53 PM
For the past several years (decades) I have watched the leadership at my alma mater fail to admit that falling enrollment is a problem.
We had over 17,000 students in the fall of 1986 when football was dropped and the population of the six counties of South Central Kansas was around 595,000. Roughly 3% of the population were attending classes at WSU!

Now we have slightly less than 15,000 students and a population of over 725,000 in the same six counties. This is roughly 2% of the population. Or a 33% reduction in market share. While I don’t have the numbers at hand I know WSU enjoyed fairly steady growth commensurate with area population from 1964 to 1986. In addition I would guess that a higher % of the population is attending college now as opposed to 1986. Had we maintained this 3% number we would easily have over 20,000 students enrolled at WSU. Just using the above numbers and multiplying $20,000 annual expense per student times 5,000 missing students represents $100 million annual lost revenue to this community. The students and their dollars went somewhere.

KU, K-State, Emporia State, Pitt State, Ft Hays State, Washburn and nearly all of the JUCO’s and DII schools have grown in step with their respective population base and some have grown dramatically (Ft Hays & Johnson CCC). WSU is the notable exception. Why? In my opinion when football was dropped what little collegiate atmosphere WSU had nearly disappeared. There may and probably are other reasons for the decline: bad marketing, subsidies from Sedgwick County to Butler CCC for tuition, bad basketball and perhaps many others.

I believe football is the key to reviving a true collegiate atmosphere at Wichita State University. Indeed, the last several years have proven that football is the cash cow as far as conferences, realignment and television revenue are concerned. There may be other ways to develop this atmosphere and I hope Dr. Bardo has some ideas here. He has stated he wants more students living on campus and that will certainly help. But how do you get them to "want" to be there. How do you convince the parents that their children will receive a "collegiate experience" and "superb education". Our campus is dull this time of year, in fact many of us are just counting down the days till basketball as we are starved for our Shockers.

In the meantime our competition has a blizzard of PR, marketing and news about their respective institutions. Sports talk shows are buzzing about K-State, Bill Snyder, Charlie Weis, Butler vs Blinn, HS football, Big 12 football and this will continue for several more weeks. I walked in to a Dillons less than two miles from WSU and was bombarded with KU & K-state colors as the main motif for the store...no Shocker gear in sight. (I left).


When Dr. Beggs arrived on campus in the late 90’s one of the first questions I asked is what are we going to do about declining enrollment. His response was; “I’m not sure WSU should try to grow.” I found that alarming and said so.
I believe a strong and growing Wichita State is instrumental to this areas’ economic health. For too long our city and our school have been the poor step child of the state system. “Wichita State is like Denny’s, it’s not a destination but you end up there”. We can train dental assistants at WSU but not dentists. We can train paralegals in Wichita but not lawyers. We can train nurses in Wichita but not Doctors. Why is everything 2nd tier at WSU? This is the largest metro area anchored in this state but all of the top programs are reserved for the KC area. Our love affair with KU & K-State is not good for the City of Wichita.

I’m encouraged that Dr. Bardo might be the agent of change. Everything I have read allows me to believe that he will embrace growth and a mission that is Wichita first. Our choice is clear we can continue to slide in market share, we can continue to watch our alumni send their children to other schools (I'm guilty of this) and not see them return. Or we can choose a new dynamic vision for Wichita. Bravely Onward is a campaign that Fidelity Bank is running and it strikes a chord. I would change it slightly to Bravely Upward.

What is my vision for Wichita State! I turned 61 yesterday and before I turn 70 I would like to go to a football game featuring our Shockers in front of 50,000 screaming fans (half of whom are students) as we qualify for a BCS Bowl Playoff (probably a 16 team tournament by then). I would like to recommend in an unqualified manner that my grandson (hopefully grandchildren by then) become a Shocker(s) and receive an outstanding education while enjoying a true collegiate experience.

Aargh...you would then be right. "The future's so bright that I gotta wear shades".

Go Shockers
Last edited by Signman; September 15th, 2012, 02:09 PM.

[WuDrWu]

Bring it back, Eddie. Bring it back.

[Aargh]

I do not believe that forcing the athletic department into bankruptcy would create a bright future.

[Ricardo del Rio]

This place is dead and it's a long time till basketball season. All we need is a spark. Any volunteers?


T


...:cool:

Guardian of the fire.

[Ricardo del Rio]

Starting PG first game of the season - Haynes-Jones or Torres?

Can McDuffie be effective as a stretch 4?

First unit SG - Stevenson or Dexter?

Style of play? Pass around the perimeter (which we saw a lot of last year) or balls to the wall drives to the basket?

Will Marshall have to start dying his hair after the gray he's likely to grow this year?

HJ,No,ES,BWDB,Y

[Ricardo del Rio]

Go Navy! I just moved to Austin, so I might have to start paying attention to UT football.

Austin is a nice town. you will get sick of UT fans. you will get very sick of the preferred politics.

[Ricardo del Rio]

The AAC FB Media Days this year was nice. It definitely would've been great to see the Shockers athletes on hand. Bringing the band back is awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thD3qaZ1diw

Is it possible to put a long term plan in place to build a football program? Considering Wichita State had football for a long time, I wouldn't imagine it would be harder than it would be at a place who never played the sport.

I don't know what that long term vision would look like.

I'm sure President Bardo is weighing that option because of the foothold he now has to advance a possible FB program to a high level, quickly, if the AAC were to ever have a football spot open up, which isn't out of the realm of possibility.

The AAC plays good football. I'm sure that the conference isn't concerned about whether or not the Shockers take to the gridiron. The Shox have already proven to belong.
However, the conference has benefitted by programs that have advanced through the ranks in the modern era. Both UConn and UCF have been to, and won, Fiesta Bowls.. and each programs rise in FBS was relatively swift.

Stop right there!

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

The football issue has many moving parts and connects to the metro area of Wichita in many ways. One might be able to build a case that the lack of football is part of the reason the metro area isn't growing as it should.

I know we are not big fans of MSU and like lots of state universities they are having financial issues but they are growing* and so is Springfield in comparison to Wichita. In the last 7 years Springfield's metro area grew by 5.88% while Wichita only enjoyed a 2.33% MSA growth. Two big differences between the schools are that they do have a football program (such as it is) and a strong Greek system. Both of these contribute greatly to "collegiate atmosphere" and that is something that still can use improvement in Wichita. Make no mistake it has improved since the basketball program has gained such prominence but we have not experienced the enrollment growth we need. I am still optimistic that the "innovation campus" will ultimately pay dividends in enrollment but I for one would still like to see Bardo "double down" with football. Just my 2 cents.

* https://news.missouristate.edu/2017/...llment-record/



Something I posted on shockernet almost 6 years ago, is for the most part still relevant.

September 11th, 2012, 10:53 PM
For the past several years (decades) I have watched the leadership at my alma mater fail to admit that falling enrollment is a problem.
We had over 17,000 students in the fall of 1986 when football was dropped and the population of the six counties of South Central Kansas was around 595,000. Roughly 3% of the population were attending classes at WSU!

Now we have slightly less than 15,000 students and a population of over 725,000 in the same six counties. This is roughly 2% of the population. Or a 33% reduction in market share. While I don’t have the numbers at hand I know WSU enjoyed fairly steady growth commensurate with area population from 1964 to 1986. In addition I would guess that a higher % of the population is attending college now as opposed to 1986. Had we maintained this 3% number we would easily have over 20,000 students enrolled at WSU. Just using the above numbers and multiplying $20,000 annual expense per student times 5,000 missing students represents $100 million annual lost revenue to this community. The students and their dollars went somewhere.

KU, K-State, Emporia State, Pitt State, Ft Hays State, Washburn and nearly all of the JUCO’s and DII schools have grown in step with their respective population base and some have grown dramatically (Ft Hays & Johnson CCC). WSU is the notable exception. Why? In my opinion when football was dropped what little collegiate atmosphere WSU had nearly disappeared. There may and probably are other reasons for the decline: bad marketing, subsidies from Sedgwick County to Butler CCC for tuition, bad basketball and perhaps many others.

I believe football is the key to reviving a true collegiate atmosphere at Wichita State University. Indeed, the last several years have proven that football is the cash cow as far as conferences, realignment and television revenue are concerned. There may be other ways to develop this atmosphere and I hope Dr. Bardo has some ideas here. He has stated he wants more students living on campus and that will certainly help. But how do you get them to "want" to be there. How do you convince the parents that their children will receive a "collegiate experience" and "superb education". Our campus is dull this time of year, in fact many of us are just counting down the days till basketball as we are starved for our Shockers.

In the meantime our competition has a blizzard of PR, marketing and news about their respective institutions. Sports talk shows are buzzing about K-State, Bill Snyder, Charlie Weis, Butler vs Blinn, HS football, Big 12 football and this will continue for several more weeks. I walked in to a Dillons less than two miles from WSU and was bombarded with KU & K-state colors as the main motif for the store...no Shocker gear in sight. (I left).


When Dr. Beggs arrived on campus in the late 90’s one of the first questions I asked is what are we going to do about declining enrollment. His response was; “I’m not sure WSU should try to grow.” I found that alarming and said so.
I believe a strong and growing Wichita State is instrumental to this areas’ economic health. For too long our city and our school have been the poor step child of the state system. “Wichita State is like Denny’s, it’s not a destination but you end up there”. We can train dental assistants at WSU but not dentists. We can train paralegals in Wichita but not lawyers. We can train nurses in Wichita but not Doctors. Why is everything 2nd tier at WSU? This is the largest metro area anchored in this state but all of the top programs are reserved for the KC area. Our love affair with KU & K-State is not good for the City of Wichita.

I’m encouraged that Dr. Bardo might be the agent of change. Everything I have read allows me to believe that he will embrace growth and a mission that is Wichita first. Our choice is clear we can continue to slide in market share, we can continue to watch our alumni send their children to other schools (I'm guilty of this) and not see them return. Or we can choose a new dynamic vision for Wichita. Bravely Onward is a campaign that Fidelity Bank is running and it strikes a chord. I would change it slightly to Bravely Upward.

What is my vision for Wichita State! I turned 61 yesterday and before I turn 70 I would like to go to a football game featuring our Shockers in front of 50,000 screaming fans (half of whom are students) as we qualify for a BCS Bowl Playoff (probably a 16 team tournament by then). I would like to recommend in an unqualified manner that my grandson (hopefully grandchildren by then) become a Shocker(s) and receive an outstanding education while enjoying a true collegiate experience.

Aargh...you would then be right. "The future's so bright that I gotta wear shades".

Go Shockers
Last edited by Signman; September 15th, 2012, 02:09 PM.

I think the Wichita area's lack of growth has WAY, WAY, WWWWWAAAAAYYYYY more to do with other factors than just a lack of football at WSU. James Chung outlines many of those in his reports: https://thechungreport.com/

A stronger case can be made that a lack of football has impeded WSU's growth, but similarly, I think other factors are more responsible--including the poor marketing, small-minded thinking, and lack of student focus that plagued the university for years--decades--before Bardo showed up.

[Ta Town Shocker]

Conference affiliation and football were at the top of my list when I was prospecting for a college. The question about football was brought up on my campus tour by someone else so it wasn't just me. The tour guide seemed very familiar with the question. I despised the other state schools so much that I ultimately made the choice to attend WSU anyway as I wasn't about to pay out of state tuition. Conference affiliation is no longer an issue in my mind.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Whelp, summer practices are now over and the boys are headed home until the start of the fall session in Mid-August.


T


...:cool:

[Bluzrover]

Well, appreciated the sole thread you started in that regard and have to admit that, even though I'm reading this thread, I'm not nearly as thrilled about this one. Real practices start in what, September?

[Kel Varnsen]

Unless Chuck is funding it (unlikely) and willing to let it lose a ton of money in return for marginal benefit in the first five years (you'd have a better chance selling hair gel to Michael Jordan), football isn't happening and shouldn't happen. It's a money pit to try to start it up again in 2018 and expect the people who have gotten their fix elsewhere for the past 30+ years to magically appear on Saturdays and support a program that would stink for the first few seasons at a minimum.

[WstateU]

Unless Chuck is funding it (unlikely) and willing to let it lose a ton of money in return for marginal benefit in the first five years (you'd have a better chance selling hair gel to Michael Jordan), football isn't happening and shouldn't happen. It's a money pit to try to start it up again in 2018 and expect the people who have gotten their fix elsewhere for the past 30+ years to magically appear on Saturdays and support a program that would stink for the first few seasons at a minimum.

I’m sure Bardo completed this little excercise with the consultants before he ran it up the flagpole with anyone; the “Con’s” are pretty obvious and there are many, but I’ll bet the “Pro’s” would surprise us...

T-Chart_Benjamin_Franklin_decision-making.png

[bleednblackngold]

Unless Chuck is funding it (unlikely) and willing to let it lose a ton of money in return for marginal benefit in the first five years (you'd have a better chance selling hair gel to Michael Jordan), football isn't happening and shouldn't happen. It's a money pit to try to start it up again in 2018 and expect the people who have gotten their fix elsewhere for the past 30+ years to magically appear on Saturdays and support a program that would stink for the first few seasons at a minimum.

I was a told by everyone years ago that WSU would never have the glory years again in basketball. I for one dreamed we could. Mountains are made to be climbed. Small thinking people will never realize a dream. I just think we should never say never.

[jcdshocker]

There is simply no major financial support for bringing back football. As much as I would love to have football back, no one is lining up to write the check.

[ABC]

WSU football HAS ZERO ZERO to do with Wichita's sluggish economic growth. ZERO

[AZ Shocker]

Maybe test it. Bardo could lay out the challenge to the city, county, businesses and individual donors. Have everything planned out of where a new stadium would go, etc. Promote the plan as a campaign as a university, city, county entire region. Mulitiple partners involved.

Theoretically -

1. Have huge donor(s) from various sources (individuals, companies, city of Wichita, Sedgwick County, etc.) that promise to invest in a new state of the art stadium and fund the start-up of the Wichita St. football program ONLY IF 40,000 season tickets are pre-sold for a period of no less than 3 years (football seasons).

2. If challenge is met (sold-out stadium for 3 years)...the investors pony up and start construction immediately.

3. If challenge is NOT meant...all season ticket holders are reimbursed immediately.

4. Campaigne/Challenge is a one year campaign. If one year deadline comes up and there has not been 40,000 season tickets sold for 3 seasons...scratch plan. Obviously that would show that there is or isn't enough interest and/or support for Wichita St. football within the region.

[Aargh]

I like this thing about "just build a 40,000 or 50,000 seat stadium". I don't know what that would cost, but it would certainly be multiples of what IBA cost - and that was fought severely by a lot of people. The cost of such a facility would probably be in the $400 to $500 million range. That would be in the range of $800 to $1,000 per man, woman, and child (including homeless people) in Sedgwick County.

And you think politicians could be elected in Wichita or Sedgwick County who would support raising taxes to fund any portion of that?

The population of Sedgwick County is a shade over 500,000. To get 40,000 people into a football venue would require 1 out of every 12 or 13 people in the County into the stands. If you think you're going to get people from Cheney, Newton, Hutchinson, or ElDorado, the people in those places with any interest in college football already have season tickets to KSU, and they'd much rather drive to Manhattan than Wichita to see a game.

WSU can't just declare for D1 status as an FBS school. There's a probationary period that must be played in the FCS Division - and joining the MVFC is definitely not a possibility. Those first 3 years (and possibly more) would have to get those 40,000 fans into the stadium to watch a startup team play (and likely get beat by) the likes of Lamar, Incarnate Word, Southeastern Louisiana, Central Arkansas. Yeah, that's going to draw 40,000 - NOT! You'd be lucky to get 8,000 for games against those teams.

And there's not going to be any TV or bowl revenue.