Rafter Material?

[pinstripers]

Early is not worthy.

[WSUwatcher]

Sending a message? That's some pretty heavy interpretation, ST -- you should be a literary or movie critic.

I seriously doubt that getting their number retired someday is a selling point for recruits; and I have enough faith in the recruiting skills of Marshall and his staff that I can't imagine their feeling the least bit handicapped by Early's absence from the ceiling at CKA. They can (and presumably do) sell his success just fine as it is.

No doubt a case can be made for Early, although I'm not as easily persuaded as some are -- but really, is this whole discussion a sign of offseason boredom and eagerness to get back uinderway, or what? I've had my fun with it, and now I'll drop out and return to actual life. Plus, it's about time to head for church.

[ShockTalk]

What I was referring to, WSUwatcher, was another's post who was responding to another poster regarding players who are here maybe only a short time and how to "qualify" them worthy of the rafters. Comments were made how recruits who they may be more familiar with at WSU and are top players (at least in their minds) might not be represented. I have no clue whether any recruits would or wouldn't notice such a thing. As a example, Fred someday should be there, played with Early who also got All-American accolades, but some could say greater than Fred or, if Ron gets there, who got no 1st-3rd team honors got to the rafters because they were "career" WSU players.

Much has been said about All-American status being a prime gauge. If that is true, Cle fulfills that criteria as well or above others who are there. I do believe more than that is probably used by those who make those decisions, some of which, Cle may also qualifies. Being here 3 or 4 years, IMHO, should only be a (small) part of that.

[ShockTalk]

What I was referring to was another's post who was responding to another poster regarding players who are here maybe only a short time and how to "qualify" them worthy of the rafters. Comments were made how recruits who they may be more familiar with at WSU and are top players (at least in their minds) might not be represented. I have no clue whether any recruits would or wouldn't notice such a thing. As a example, Fred someday should be there, played with Early who also got All-American accolades, but some could say greater than Fred or, if Ron gets there, who got no 1st-3rd team honors got to the rafters because they were "career" WSU players.

Much has been said about All-American status being a prime gauge. If that is true, Cle fulfills that criteria as well or above others who are there. I do believe more than that is probably used by those who make those decisions, some of which, Cle may also qualifies. Being here 3 or 4 years, IMHO, should only be a (small) part of that.

[ShockerFever]

Early is not worthy.

Why? Because he’s a JUCO?

[Aargh]

image_5532.jpg Early is not Worthy.



5683e041c08a8034008b5ccd-1136-852.jpg

[im4wsu]

I'm not advocating anything, but just posting factual information; According to Sportsreference, since the 2009-2010 season, three Shockers make the career PER (Player Efficiency Rating) top 250:

Cleanthony #102 25.99
Darral #189 24.83
Garrett #218 24.38

[wufan]

Cliff Levingston, Ron Baker and Landry Shamet all made a third team AA, though it wasn’t one of the consensus teams.

[Shockm]

Cliff was neither a career Shocker nor consensus AA. This lends precidence and gives an argument for Shamet, Early, and Baker being added to the rafters. Fred probably will be an addition with little argument.

[im4wsu]

A way to solve the problem of Levingston not being consensus AA and getting Shamet eligible for the rafter is to use 1st round NBA draft as a criterion. Nate Bowman would also meet that criterion. Using 2nd round NBA draft would qualify Gene Wiley, Sherrod and Early.

I'm not suggesting that any player meeting this one criterion be in the rafters, but only that he be eligible to be considered for the honor. Neither am I suggesting that meeting this criterion is necessary to be eligible for consideration. Simply an alternative method.

Call me out for blasphemy, but I kind of have difficulty including Baker while players like Perez, Jamie Thompson, Cheese and Armstrong/Jabali are not up there.

[AZ Shocker]

My personal opinion is a Final Four run, an undefeated season and then going league should get you up there. Add in a couple-few All-American accolades and what you have is 3 more jerseys to hang. Cle, Ron and Fred. IMO...those 3 guys along with Coach Marshall stamped this program back into the bigs and should be honored.

[ArtVandalay]

All this rafter talk just seems crazy when we have such a huge back log of men's basketball players. Jason Perez (graduated 2000) and Paul Miller (2006) are the most recent. It would seem strange to put this in the rafters before we put prior guys in the hall.

[Shockm]

A way to solve the problem of Levingston not being consensus AA and getting Shamet eligible for the rafter is to use 1st round NBA draft as a criterion. Nate Bowman would also meet that criterion. Using 2nd round NBA draft would qualify Gene Wiley, Sherrod and Early.

I'm not suggesting that any player meeting this one criterion be in the rafters, but only that he be eligible to be considered for the honor. Neither am I suggesting that meeting this criterion is necessary to be eligible for consideration. Simply an alternative method.

Call me out for blasphemy, but I kind of have difficulty including Baker while players like Perez, Jamie Thompson, Cheese and Armstrong/Jabali are not up there.

I’m not necessarily arily arguing for Baker but he was a 3rd Team AA on one of the lists. Was Jamie Thompson, Cheese Johnson or Jason Perez on an AA list? I may be wrong but I don’t think so. Even Warren Jabari who would receive more argument for the rafters than any of those you mentioned wasn’t on an AA list. They may be HM but not 1st, 2nd, or 3rd Team AA.

[im4wsu]

I mentioned Jabali. Yes Baker was a 3rd team AA. Question though, is the rafter meant to be an official All-American type team or is it to honor those whose performances as a Shocker were outstanding?

I'm just saying that some of those I mentioned are, in my mind, along with Baker, are representative of those that might be hanging in the rafter. I don't personally believe that Baker was necessarily a better player nor bigger contributor to Shocker basketball than the others, but was on a team that generated more interest and his many talents were more visible.

[Shockm]

Baker is one of the best perimeter defensive players in Shocker history. I challenge you to find someone better. He is still a great defensive player in the NBA but it individual defense doesn’t dominate in the NBA as it does in college. Jamie Thomson had the best corner spot up shots in Shocker history. Baker would have been a great player in any era.

[ShockingButTrue]

My personal opinion is a Final Four run, an undefeated season and then going league should get you up there. Add in a couple-few All-American accolades and what you have is 3 more jerseys to hang. Cle, Ron and Fred. IMO...those 3 guys along with Coach Marshall stamped this program back into the bigs and should be honored.

This is an easy argument for Early being up there. I agree.

[AZ Shocker]

This is an easy argument for Early being up there. I agree.

Indeed! And heck...if it were up to me...I'd rack him up there just for "the dunk" alone against Kentucky.

[WuShock16]

This wasn't bad either. I was in the corner across from our bench so I had a good angle of the jump. I thought it was incredible.

https://heavy.com/news/2013/04/cleanthony-earlys-dunk-wichita-final-four-gif

[Stickboy46]

One other thing to consider with Cle is his NBA career was majorly derailed by an accident. A dumb accident, but i still feel like without that accident he would have ended up getting play somewhere.

[Dan]

the worst thing that happened to Cle was getting drafted by his hometown team. Going back home was not the best thing for him, IMO.

[Aargh]

Hanging out at a strip club until 3 AM with your girlfriend, because her friends work there is not an accident. Wearing thousands of dollars worth of gold chains to a strip club in Queens is poor judgement.

There was a reason Cle's mother got him out of the city. Putting him back into the city may have cost Cle an NBA career.

[BostonWu]

What no Ross McBurney love? SMDH

[shoxilla]

who is already hung up?

DS, WJ(A), JT, KP , AC, CL, XM....???...

[1972Shocker]

who is already hung up?

DS, WJ(A), JT, KP , AC, CL, XM....???...

Ralph Miller and Cleo Littleton. The East High Coach and star player. Some might say The Roundhouse is the housee Ralph and Cleo built.

Dave The Rave carried the Shockers to new heights when the Valley was the best basketball conference in the country.

Antoine, Cliff and X were dominating players who could take over a game in intimidating fashion. These guys gave real meaning to the MTXE slogan that Gene Smithson used.

Warren (Armstrong) Jabali's jersey is not in the rafters. Nor is Kelly Pete's.

Next up? Who knows but Ron and Fred were winners who won with extreme mental toughness, outstanding leadership and total class. If Antoine and Cliff were the bookends maybe Ron and Fred are the salt and pepper of Shocker basketball.

Jim Schaus resurrected Shocker athletics from the depression of the 1990's.

I think 3G's and Lambo's accomplishments speak for themselves.
.
In my opinion this needs to be a very select group. Icons who, when you look back on their carreers. you can say and fell that their presence built a foundation for an enduring legacy. How you measure that I don't know but I think it requires some passage of time and you know when you see it.

This also applies to Gene Stephenson although he can be recognized in other ways with the baseball program and facilities.

Another gentlemen that I hold in the highest esteem is Linwood Sexton. Not only for his athletic accomplishments buit also, and perhaps more importatnly, for his class and strength of character he showed in the face of pretty significant prejudice and bigotry.