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If You Could Change One Play...

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  • #16
    I have an odd one:

    WSU vs. Notre Dame

    WSU storms back to take the lead

    Notre Dame gets nothing out of their set and calls a timeut

    After the timeout Fred helped off their point guard who hadn’t had a clean look since the first half. Of course he buries it to start a run.

    My change - let Notre Dame take a tough shot! I felt that team was really jelling and Notre Dame was the one problematic matchup.

    Comment


    • #17
      You did say play; not outcome.

      Final play against Cincinnati at Koch.
      terrible execution by AR

      Against ND at Maui. Terrible execution by AR to have his defender beat him to the ball on the inbounds play.

      just a coincidence AR was involved in both. Nothing sinister... Those two plays just torqued me off.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by 1972Shocker View Post
        Ralph Miller's decision to start (and end) Dave The Rave's eligibilty in mid-year.

        Stretching the definition of a play.


        Don't know all of the details but I think here was a lot more to this than just Ralph deciding. Seem to remember there was some mis-information and a little politics from our brethren in the Big 8. Think Fred Marrs has posted about this somewhere. Ernie Moore was effected as well.
        Last edited by Signman; June 17th, 2018, 03:30 PM.

        Comment


        • 1972Shocker
          1972Shocker commented
          Editing a comment
          Please post that if you happen to come across it. Thanks.

      • #19
        Had the ref swallowed the whistle in 2011, maybe the Shockers are the Cinderella team on that tournament instead of VCU. That team was certainly talented enough to make some damage in the NCAA Tournament.

        In 2012, the Shockers played scared and couldn’t get it together until the end. Toure hit a 3 to give the Shockers a two-point lead. Had VCU missed that 3, the Shockers could have played the next possession a bit more confidently. Another bucket would have made it a two-possession game in the final minute...GAME OVER! The Shockers would have beaten Indiana to earn a prequel showdown with eventual champion Kentucky. Anthony Davis and crew was the only squad I wanted to avoid, but I would have loved for those seniors to get that shot.
        78-65

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        • #20
          Hiring Mike Cohen
          "When life hands you lemons, make lemonade." Better have some sugar and water too, or else your lemonade will suck!

          Comment


          • #21
            If I had to change a regular season play, it would be Zach Brown's missed 3 against Temple.

            Comment


            • im4wsu
              im4wsu commented
              Editing a comment
              Any reason for selecting Zach in regulation over Markis in OT? Both were clean looks.

          • #22
            I, too, go with the jump ball against Louisville. That completely changed the national champions for the year. That was the best shot we, as fans, may ever see for WSU to win a Natty. That goes as a no call, we win. Then as was stated earlier, destroy Michigan on Monday night in Atlanta.

            Comment


            • ShockTalk
              ShockTalk commented
              Editing a comment
              "That goes as a no call, we win"...… or a foul on Louisville.

            • Steeleshocker
              Steeleshocker commented
              Editing a comment
              I still think the 3 that Ron passed up was a bigger deal. Or the 4th foul on Armstead. When the jump ball happened we were down 3. While it was terrible, we still needed to make a shot to tie and force overtime. The other plays happened when we had a lead.

          • #23
            Originally posted by 1972Shocker View Post
            Ralph Miller's decision to start (and end) Dave The Rave's eligibilty in mid-year.

            Stretching the definition of a play.


            72, That popped into my mind as well, but dismissed it as not being an actual game play.

            If we can ever win a blasted NC, then and only then, can we let loose of these damn, What If's.

            Comment


            • #24
              Originally posted by proshox View Post
              I have an odd one:

              WSU vs. Notre Dame

              WSU storms back to take the lead

              Notre Dame gets nothing out of their set and calls a timeut

              After the timeout Fred helped off their point guard who hadn’t had a clean look since the first half. Of course he buries it to start a run.

              My change - let Notre Dame take a tough shot! I felt that team was really jelling and Notre Dame was the one problematic matchup.
              Great offseason thread. My reactions:

              1. You hurt me with the first two. Because they are the only two up for discussion in my opinion. I won’t forget the walk I took after Fred’s miss against Kentucky for the rest of my life. And I won’t watch that game ever again, even as much as I love the haymaker nature of it. I’ve run into multiple Kentucky fans at road/neutral games over the years since then (most of them are nice even if they’re ridiculously entitled), and they all speak admiringly.

              2. The unequivocal winner on this question in my opinion is Ron passing up the 3. Up 13 with 13 left. I was in the arena, in the Shocker section, with a straight line of sight down to the lane. As soon as Ron had the look, I had the same feeling I did in MSG when Graham Hatch got the ball at the top of the key... It’s going in and put this one in the deep freeze. I think I said “NO!” out loud after I saw him pass it inside - hell, that open 3 was what we ran the offense for that year - and wasn’t surprised when it was mishandled. I had a bad gut feel after that. Bad enough that the Hancock “foul” on Baker didn’t really register or compare with me. But no doubt in my mind that we win 2 out of 3 against Michigan with that squad and put our name as the first true Cinderella of the modern era.

              3. I can’t speak to Stallworth, but it sure seems like that team could have printed a natty if they had him.

              4. That weird-ass full court play at Vandy should probably be in the discussion further down the list.

              5. For perspective and another thread idea - what are the ones that worked out that provided a huge lift? The discussion has to start with Fred’s contested 3 against Zaga... in my opinion, the moment that the national profile of the current iteration of this program was born.

              Again, great offseason thread.

              Comment


              • #25
                Originally posted by Good News View Post

                Great offseason thread. My reactions:

                1. You hurt me with the first two. Because they are the only two up for discussion in my opinion. I won’t forget the walk I took after Fred’s miss against Kentucky for the rest of my life. And I won’t watch that game ever again, even as much as I love the haymaker nature of it. I’ve run into multiple Kentucky fans at road/neutral games over the years since then (most of them are nice even if they’re ridiculously entitled), and they all speak admiringly.

                2. The unequivocal winner on this question in my opinion is Ron passing up the 3. Up 13 with 13 left. I was in the arena, in the Shocker section, with a straight line of sight down to the lane. As soon as Ron had the look, I had the same feeling I did in MSG when Graham Hatch got the ball at the top of the key... It’s going in and put this one in the deep freeze. I think I said “NO!” out loud after I saw him pass it inside - hell, that open 3 was what we ran the offense for that year - and wasn’t surprised when it was mishandled. I had a bad gut feel after that. Bad enough that the Hancock “foul” on Baker didn’t really register or compare with me. But no doubt in my mind that we win 2 out of 3 against Michigan with that squad and put our name as the first true Cinderella of the modern era.

                3. I can’t speak to Stallworth, but it sure seems like that team could have printed a natty if they had him.

                4. That weird-ass full court play at Vandy should probably be in the discussion further down the list.

                5. For perspective and another thread idea - what are the ones that worked out that provided a huge lift? The discussion has to start with Fred’s contested 3 against Zaga... in my opinion, the moment that the national profile of the current iteration of this program was born.

                Again, great offseason thread.
                3. Nate Bowman also missed that second semester. 12 pts and 8 boards the first 14 games.
                "I not sure that I've ever been around a more competitive player or young man than Fred VanVleet. I like to win more than 99.9% of the people in this world, but he may top me." -- Gregg Marshall 12/23/13
                ---------------------------------------
                Remember when Nancy Pelosi said about Obamacare:
                "We have to pass it, to find out what's in it".

                A physician called into a radio show and said:
                "That's the definition of a stool sample."

                Comment


                • #26
                  Some but certainly not all.

                  I wish we had not called timeout in the first Kentucky game but instead Fred had passed to Ron on the left wing for the final shot.

                  I wish Clevin had not dropped the ball out of bounds with 1.7 to go.

                  I wish Jamar had stayed home against Vanderbilt instead of going for the steal.

                  I wish Sasha had been a half step quicker against St. Johns for the steal and the win.
                  The year of the hatchlings!

                  Comment


                  • #27
                    Originally posted by Good News View Post

                    Great offseason thread. My reactions:

                    5. For perspective and another thread idea - what are the ones that worked out that provided a huge lift? The discussion has to start with Fred’s contested 3 against Zaga... in my opinion, the moment that the national profile of the current iteration of this program was born.

                    Again, great offseason thread.
                    If Matty B misses the shot, we quite possibly don’t win the Valley and maybe don’t get put into a pod with Winthrop (if we even make the NCAA Tournament). Gregg wouldn’t have seen firsthand the awesomeness of Shocker Nation and thus maybe never comes to Wichita.

                    78-65

                    Comment


                    • #28
                      Not as big as some of the other post season plays but here's one that's always stuck with me. After a grueling 72 hours with a terrible NCAA schedule, WSU storms back from a 17 point second half deficit to take a one point lead with 10 and change to go, but on a fast break Angel Rodrigez throws a lob from about half court, Markis goes up to deflect it and is just short by about half an inch, instead of retaining momentum McClellan finishes a thunderous alley-oop and we never regain the lead.

                      Comment


                      • #29
                        Originally posted by im4wsu View Post

                        3. Nate Bowman also missed that second semester. 12 pts and 8 boards the first 14 games.
                        We will never know what the dynamics of having both Stallworth and Bowman on that gutsy, magnificent team, which made it to the Final 4 without its two future NBA players, would have been.

                        Obviously, at first glance, it is too easy to state that with both of them playing, we should have won the NC, if not run away with it.

                        Look at their scoring, their rebounding, their overall play, the additional depth, they would have provided.. How could we not have won it they had played?

                        The question which always falls back on my mind is, but would the team chemistry have been the same for those gallant young Shockers who played their hearts out, minus Stallworth and Bowman, who are two of the best players per position, that have ever played for the Shockers.

                        The crux is that we will never know, but I personally will go to my grave thinking we would have won it all.

                        Comment


                        • #30
                          Originally posted by 60Shock View Post

                          We will never know what the dynamics of having both Stallworth and Bowman on that gutsy, magnificent team, which made it to the Final 4 without its two future NBA players, would have been.

                          Obviously, at first glance, it is too easy to state that with both of them playing, we should have won the NC, if not run away with it.

                          Look at their scoring, their rebounding, their overall play, the additional depth, they would have provided.. How could we not have won it they had played?

                          The question which always falls back on my mind is, but would the team chemistry have been the same for those gallant young Shockers who played their hearts out, minus Stallworth and Bowman, who are two of the best players per position, that have ever played for the Shockers.

                          The crux is that we will never know, but I personally will go to my grave thinking we would have won it all.
                          In the first sixteen games of the season (Stallworth played in 16, Bowman 4, WSU had four losses (#! Michigan, #10 St. Joseph's, @Chicaog Loyola, and @Duquesne). The remaining regular season, three losses (@Tulsa, home to Bradley, @Louisvillle. In the NCAA, two losses, #2 UCLA and the Princeton obliteration.

                          So it is clearly uncertain that even with both, we'd have done a whole lot better; however, common sense and fantasy says we'd certainly have had a better chance with those two.


                          "I not sure that I've ever been around a more competitive player or young man than Fred VanVleet. I like to win more than 99.9% of the people in this world, but he may top me." -- Gregg Marshall 12/23/13
                          ---------------------------------------
                          Remember when Nancy Pelosi said about Obamacare:
                          "We have to pass it, to find out what's in it".

                          A physician called into a radio show and said:
                          "That's the definition of a stool sample."

                          Comment

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