Cold hard truth

[lmor1971]

It is not the execution it is the plan. It is apparent that the bench is not near as deep as originally thought. Starters (whoever they end up being) need to play more minutes. PERIOD! Rythem can not be gained by a barrage of subs. Need 6 to 7 to gel together and stick with it.

The constant sub in and out worked great against inferior teams. Basketball is a game of repetition if you continue to break the rythem the dominos will fall.

Dont get me wrong I have and always will have full respect for Marahall. He has brought the program to new heights . BUT he needs to adjust the strategy. Perfect example was tonight OT, play what you believe to be your best 5 for those minutes.

Blamimg poor play is not the reason. We are being out coached in a higher level league and we are not adjusting the plan. The performance is solely on Marshall and Marshall alone . Time to call it what it is.

[Play Angry]

There is a weird feel to this season, and it's been present even during our better stretches. Staff and players alike have seemed like they are working a job they don't enjoy - lots of pressing for results and straining.

Not sure if it is the weight of expectations, a lack of balancing personalities, outside issues, or some combination of all of the above. Regardless of its root cause, we are seeing the ill effects.

I hope our team can loosen up and find its sense of enjoyment again soon.

[ShockTalk]

Don't know for sure about the others, but pretty sure the pre-season expectations were a lot of it. This goes for the fans as well.

[SweetShocker]

At this rate, there is no way in hell that Wichita State even makes the big dance. They might squeak by and win the NIT again. Face it; Frankamp is a head case and McDuffie is overrated. Still, to have the best team that Wichita State has ever had overall and play this way makes no sense. Our preseason rating was based on everyone returning. Something has gone wrong with the Shockers big time.

[ShockerFever]

Can somebody get rid of this POS clown already?

[ShockRef]

Lmor,
Hit a number of points on the head, but missing the biggest.
Just hoping that HCGM backs up when picking up his check for this week, cause he certainly didn't earn it tonight. His substitution patterns and lack of 2nd half adjustments were embarrassing.

48 first half points and end with 79 (+an extra 5 minutes)? His standing around and not calling a T/O when his troops are CLEARLY rattled is absolute bullshit.
When you have an NBA caliber PG in FVV and running mate in RB, you can get away with that stuff. News flash - they aren't running out of the tunnel pulling off their warmups!

Gregg, wake up!

His 4 'yes men' sat there again tonight like 4 pimples on a dogs ass hoping the clock would run out before Temple caught them. It was HS bullshit watching it happen and the only adjustment was to hope that Reaves would nail 7 more treys to save their ass.

HCGM could get away with **** like tonight when he was beating up the Drakes of the world. Tonight was ****ing embarrassing.

If nothing changes and I mean quickly, the LawMan nailed this one right on the head.

That is all.

[bleed yellow]

I knew what direction the game was going to go when Shaq caught the ball under the basket, got the ball ripped out of his hands and tossed to the floor.. We may need a few years to adjust to the American. Call it what you want, we simply don't look prepared.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

The Shox have been prepared for Pitt, Gonzaga, Ohio State, Indiana, KU, Kentucky, Louisville, Vanderbilt, Arizona, etc. in recent years. All the "oh my, not ready for the American" stuff is a load of crap.

This team has issues, but the issues would be evident in any league. It would just be 8 point wins over Drake we would be complaining about rather than OT losses at Temple.

[Aargh]

A MeltDown Thread is now appropriate. Marshall is still in a learning curve. How many times has Marshall coached a team in anything other than a one-bid league? This is Marshall's first experience in a multi-bid league. Without some of his great assistants, Marshall hasn't really shown he's capable of adjusting the way his opposing coaches are adjusting.

The last 3 shots I saw in regulation and OT were pure desperation to get something up. Brown should have hammered the guy going for the layup in regulation. Let him try to make two throws instead of giving him a layup.

The moment Dunphy adjusted his D to cut off passes to the post for baskets, the Shox kept trying to set that up. When that didn't work, they spent the entire second half trying to figure out how to get a good shot when their game plan had been defeated.

Now that the Shox are playing against a better level of competition with the same team they had last year, that 10 seed is looking more and more accurate.

[ShockRef]

A MeltDown Thread is now appropriate. Marshall is still in a learning curve. How many times has Marshall coached a team in anything other than a one-bid league? This is Marshall's first experience in a multi-bid league. Without some of his great assistants, Marshall hasn't really shown he's capable of adjusting the way his opposing coaches are adjusting.

The last 3 shots I saw in regulation and OT were pure desperation to get something up. Brown should have hammered the guy going for the layup in regulation. Let him try to make two throws instead of giving him a layup.

The moment Dunphy adjusted his D to cut off passes to the post for baskets, the Shox kept trying to set that up. When that didn't work, they spent the entire second half trying to figure out how to get a good shot when their game plan had been defeated.

Now that the Shox are playing against a better level of competition with the same team they had last year, that 10 seed is looking more and more accurate.

As usual, Aargh is a voice of reason.
The lack of adjustments tonight (or maybe stubbornness is more accurate) was mind numbing. Dunphy is no John Wooden, but when he can make simple HS adjustments at halftime and totally befuddled your team, its a major league concern.
I'm not getting into personnel shortcomings (LS needs to stay in school unless he thinks traveling around the 'D' League is his Utopia), but HCGM is paid to recognize the best match ups for his personnel compared to the opposition. He didn't do that tonight. He has to be the most stubborn HC I've ever seen.

WSU previously got away with debacles like tonight due to inferior competition in The Valley. However, even Mid-level AAC teams like Temple will expose obvious shortcomings and the lack of making adjustments will come back to haunt. AAC coaches are another step up the ladder and will seek and find a teams weakness.

I mentioned it after the Houston blow out that things needed to be addressed or expect more of the same. Tonight's bullshit is submitted for your review.

That is all.

[shockrah]

I thought that was all a few posts ago?

[N Crestway]

Didn't watch the game tonight. It had been a hard day plus I had a bad feeling about this game. Think the learning curve for Marshall and staff in the AAC is pretty central to the team's problems. Also, we had a talent edge in the MVC after Creighton left... we certainly don't have it in this league so there is that too. With the loss of two valuable assistant coaches, I question whether Marshall can come up with the answers this year. Admittedly a pretty depressing outlook going forward...

[asiseeit]

Well, as always I DID watch the game. Like everyone else I was disappointed and disgusted at
our 2nd half performance. About the only argument I had with GM's coaching was with his
playing ZB and NOT playing CF. ZB never touched the critical player with 12 secs left and took
our final shot. Also playing Jones at all in a close game. 0-5 between the two. What if CF had
played their19 minutes instead? The offense runs so much better with him in there even
though he draws much more defensive attention. He KNOWS the game and sees the court.
Can't say the same for ZB or SMJ. At this point I wouldn't advocate CF getting AR's minutes
but I'd sure like to see him get ZB/SMJ minutes. Need an 8 man rotation in games like these !

[proshox]

Exactly.

I would add that Willis, Nurger, and Morris cannot be on the court at the same time. The opposing coaches get tingly feeling down their leg when they see us go “big.” Also RK and MM should be subs for each other with limited combined minute.

[Topshock]

News flash, it doesn't have to be one or the other with Reeves and CF, we could play three guards together. Going "big" is not working. When playing teams without a true center, RN is a disaster on defense and brings little on offence. Surely everyone has noticed how the opposing team starts lighting it up from 3 when Nurger comes in the game. It doesn't have to be his man, it's his slow rotation and inability to switch that ruins our perimeter defense.

[ShockingButTrue]

Since the thread is "Cold hard truth."

Going back to the Notre Dame game: WSU had a double digit lead and was rolling the ball in bounds to kill the clock? WHAT? The several times that they executed that baffling strategy gave ND valuable seconds added to the end of the game. Head scratcher. Shockers couldn't maintain the lead, not unlike tonight... Or Arkansas St. against us.

[proshox]

That strategy is to allow WSU to have more "time" within the shot clock to get a good shot... It makes sense if you are struggling to create good looks.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

THIS

A MeltDown Thread is now appropriate. Marshall is still in a learning curve. How many times has Marshall coached a team in anything other than a one-bid league? This is Marshall's first experience in a multi-bid league. Without some of his great assistants, Marshall hasn't really shown he's capable of adjusting the way his opposing coaches are adjusting.

Marshall is a recruiter and an attitude installer. His previous assistants were clearly a big part of his strategic team and made sure appropriate adjustments were made. Without them, Marshall is incomplete.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

With that said, it is still silly that anyone ever even mentioned the NIT for this team. They are still top 25 in KenPom, will still be top 25 in the AP next week, and are still likely a single digit NCAA seed. The sky isn't falling unless you had your heart set on National Championship this year. This is still a good team with potential to have a very good March.

[pinstripers]

hopefully

[ShockCrazy]

I still think we'll make NCAA and have every belief we can do damage once there. But I do not want to see the scenario where we lose both Cinci games and at SMU. That leaves us with an RPI in the 20's still, which is great but a real chance of going o-fer in 6-8 group 1 games is not a good look, and very reminiscent of the biggest "snubs" of all time. Now it's also possible we lose those games and we are still fine because some combination of Tulsa, UConn, Baylor, UCF, Marquette, and OSU play themselves just onto the group 1 side. But right now according to RPIForecast only UCF is on the right side(barely but unlikely due to injuries), and Warrennolan only has Tulsa on the right side(again barely).

[pinstripers]

THIS



Marshall is a recruiter and an attitude installer. His previous assistants were clearly a big part of his strategic team and made sure appropriate adjustments were made. Without them, Marshall is incomplete.

This, exactly

[SB Shock]

Good thing WSU plays in the American - losses at this time of the year would have been killer in the MVC. Now these losses are only hurting WSU seeding.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

On the other hand, playing like they did last night, WSU beats every team not named Loyola in the 2018 MVC.

[proshox]

WSU is looking at three seed at worst if you combine WSU's preseason expectations, actual non-conference results, and a 17-1 league record (which would be the worst case scenario).

OTOH, If, BIG IF, WSU goes on a losing streak against the upcoming toss-up games things will be much different.

WSU traded autobids to the tourney for exposure, more exciting games, and a potential seed improvement when we win 30+ games.

[1979Shocker]

With all the complaints about how HCGM is coaching, one or all of you need to call in to the Coach's Show to let him know. How is he supposed to know that he's doing a bad job if no one lets him know? He probably thinks it's the players that are making the bad decisions.

[SB Shock]

Show doesn’t take any calls anymore. They require you to submit question, and then Kennedy will choose which ones to ask. Kennedy has made it clear he won’t ask any Monday morning QB questions.

[Topshock]

Probably because, other than they don't take calls, people realize that he is so stubborn he would just dig his heals in harder if someone made a suggestion, no matter how good it might be.

[Shock Top]

Because Kennedy is the biggest “Yes Man” there is.

No way would he ever ask a tough question.

[Speak2me]

My few thoughts:

1. I completely agree that the game plans have not been as strong this year. That is directly on the assistant coaches. One assistant coach is assigned the task of developing the game plan for each opponent many days in advance and it rotates around. There have been multiple games this year that teams have jumped on us early and we look we have no real game plan.

2. HCGM refusal to ever call a time out has cost us multiple losses this year. I know his famous phrase is "I want the players to figure it out for themselves". However, this group of players is unable to do that. They had a 16-2 run in the second half last night without a time out. He could have called a time out, calmed them down, drawn up a couple plays and given them a pep talk, but he never did. We ended the game with three unused time outs. You should not end a game that you blew a huge lead and that went into OT with three time outs left. That is 100% on the head coach and nobody else. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a different result. His use of time outs is the definition of insanity now. HCGM needs to change his coaching style to suit this group of players.

3. Our bench is not as deep as we thought it was. Without naming names, we have several players that once they go into the game we start to lose whatever lead we have. This happens almost every time they go in.

4. Our rough stretch has coincided with cold stretches from Frankamp and Shamet. Neither is shooting the ball well and until they are out of their slumps we will struggle. This team needs the three ball to fall to be successful.

[pinstripers]

"in game" adjustments are non-existant

[proshox]

The biggest miss-use of time-outs came with a minute left. He kept them to be situational and then failed to use them.

The most glaring opportunity came after Shaq's dunk. We had terrible match-ups and the players were visibly gassed.

You take a time-out there and the odds of Temple getting an "easy in rhythm three" are lowered significantly.

When I saw the line-up coming in, I thought he is going all in on scoring this possession than calling a timeout to sub in defense... I was so wrong.

[SHOCKvalue]

With all the complaints about how HCGM is coaching, one or all of you need to call in to the Coach's Show to let him know. How is he supposed to know that he's doing a bad job if no one lets him know?

And there it is! Like an echo in the room that just took a while to come back around. Like an intellectual turd that just won’t flush.