Rutgers vs St. Johns

[tropicalshox]

No more ref upgrades for the Valley please. We might get Big East officials.

[SHOXAAC]

No comments by the in-house refereeing crew because it's indefensible.

How could you possibly mess that up so badly, especially when that is your FREAKING JOB?

It's not like the buzzer sounded right at that moment. There was a 2 second difference between the foot touching out of bounds and the horn sounding. The official on the left side on tv (may have been Higgins) looked like he was looking right at it but never blew the whistle. The T should have been assessed as well.
That was a total eff-up and makes it look like the winner was pre-determined during the final minute. Sounds dumb but it's true.

I agree except for the T. As time-challenged as he obviously was today, the kids' intent was very innocent and harmless. That kind of celebration is OK...no harm no foul. The whole management scene, or lack there of, by the officials was beyond embarassing and heads should roll.

First, let me say that I understand they can't review the violations discussed if a whistle had not been blown and they won't call a T if the game is over.

MVC, your "no harm, no foul" doesn't hold water. Earlier this year we had a discussion regarding a bounced ball and our local refs were very united that a T had to be called. In that case, a foul had been called on team A at their end of the court and that foul had "locked up the game" for the team B. As they walked to the other end, a player for the "winning" team B, without looking at an opposing player or their bench and without saying anything or looking over joyed, bounce the ball about 3' over his head and the ball came down in his complete control as he was walking. A player from team A pointed at it and at that same time a ref called the T. His team B did not get to shoot FTs and the team A won on the 2 made FTs from the T.

I hear what you're saying. I can't remember the two teams in a game I watched 2 or 3 weeks ago, but a player bounced the ball reasonably hard with the intent of catching it as it bounced hard off the floor. His hands didn't coordinate with the bouncing ball and it bounced off his hands a couple feet over his head. No T was called.

We can reference rule books till we're blue in the face, but referees aren't robots. They don't all call a game with the exact same judgement and interpretation. I have to believe, regardless of what the rule book might say, some referees weigh common sense over "rule," even though they have about a milisecond to do it.

[SHOXAAC]

The word is there shouldn't of been a monitor check because there was no whistle. Nothing really to check. You can't use the monitor to check to see if a travel or out of bounds call should of been made.

The refs went to sleep the last 2 seconds of the game. The commissioner of the Big East should of marched down there and sent the teams back out. To heck with what you can and can't do by the rules. If people screw up that bad, you got to do something about it.

I, along with many on this board, have begged for officials to swallow their whistles at the end of games (VCU), but today took it to a disturbing level.

There is a major difference between calling a foul based on body contact (which is a judgment call) and not bothering to pay attention to whether a player is out of bounds with time still on the clock (which is not a judgment call).

In regards to the issue of a technical. The intent of the player shouldn't matter. We just had a cheerleader almost lose a game for his team because he threw a ball in the air with time still left on the clock.

The player threw the ball into the crowd well before a buzzer sounded. That (like the out of bounds) isn't a judgment call. It is a technical.

Both situations could potentially result in a whistle. I was just making a very off the cuff, vague statement about the stereotype of officials blowing whistles at the end of games...that's all.

[ShockerFever]

The easiest prediction was Fever going his usual ape shat over the call and calling for rules changes, court trials and eventual be-headings.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said... :roll:

For someone that always mocks people for saying BS, you sure let it stream from your mouth quite a bit. I hope you don't referee with the same mindset.

At least I knew my post would get you to come out.

Success! :clap:

[ShockTalk]

No comments by the in-house refereeing crew because it's indefensible.

How could you possibly mess that up so badly, especially when that is your FREAKING JOB?

It's not like the buzzer sounded right at that moment. There was a 2 second difference between the foot touching out of bounds and the horn sounding. The official on the left side on tv (may have been Higgins) looked like he was looking right at it but never blew the whistle. The T should have been assessed as well.
That was a total eff-up and makes it look like the winner was pre-determined during the final minute. Sounds dumb but it's true.

I agree except for the T. As time-challenged as he obviously was today, the kids' intent was very innocent and harmless. That kind of celebration is OK...no harm no foul. The whole management scene, or lack there of, by the officials was beyond embarassing and heads should roll.

First, let me say that I understand they can't review the violations discussed if a whistle had not been blown and they won't call a T if the game is over.

MVC, your "no harm, no foul" doesn't hold water. Earlier this year we had a discussion regarding a bounced ball and our local refs were very united that a T had to be called. In that case, a foul had been called on team A at their end of the court and that foul had "locked up the game" for the team B. As they walked to the other end, a player for the "winning" team B, without looking at an opposing player or their bench and without saying anything or looking over joyed, bounce the ball about 3' over his head and the ball came down in his complete control as he was walking. A player from team A pointed at it and at that same time a ref called the T. His team B did not get to shoot FTs and the team A won on the 2 made FTs from the T.

I hear what you're saying. I can't remember the two teams in a game I watched 2 or 3 weeks ago, but a player bounced the ball reasonably hard with the intent of catching it as it bounced hard off the floor. His hands didn't coordinate with the bouncing ball and it bounced off his hands a couple feet over his head. No T was called.

We can reference rule books till we're blue in the face, but referees aren't robots. They don't all call a game with the exact same judgement and interpretation. I have to believe, regardless of what the rule book might say, some referees weigh common sense over "rule," even though they have about a milisecond to do it.

Our in house refs were very clear, as did they say the rules. In my example above, that was my arguement was that refs could have stop, had a discussion prior to calling the T, and determined that no unsportsman like intent was there and ruled to not make the call. Of course in today's happening, absolutely nothing happened by the refs.

[ShockMe300]

To me, this is the very reason that officials should have to have post game press conferences just like coaches and players. If we troll out our 18-22 year old kids to be pummelled by the media, there's no reason an official can't go out there and say he screwed up, or at least tell us what hot cheerleader he was watching instead of the game.

[im4wsu]

They can review to set the time.

However in this case, there was no whistle stopping the clock, so it is not reviewable.

Of course they blew it and there's no defending any part of it. There's no argument here or by anyone. The man himself has spoken and deemed it "unacceptable" and when John Adams talks, we listen!

The easiest prediction was Fever going his usual ape shat over the call and calling for rules changes, court trials and eventual be-headings.

The funny part of the thread was everyone jumping on John Higgins tail before watching the tape, not knowing there are two Higgins working D-1 ball.

Believe me, there is a big difference between the two and I'm not just talking about their physique. 8)

If this is indeed the corrrect interpretation of the rules, then the rules need to be amended so that the horn/buzzer signifying end of playing period (half, game, or OT) is deemed to be a "whistle" or otherwise "stoppage of the clock," thereby making the time reviewable.

If that were the rule, then the determination of the time on the clock when the ball was determined to be out-of-bounds could be made in the same manner as when an official lets the clock run too long on an OB under the basket.

[Good News]

Tim Higgins, huh? That's not the first time he's swallowed his whistle.

2008 NCAA Tournament. UCLA 51, Texas A&M 49. Donald Sloan drives the lane on the final possession... Higgins on the baseline...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW5QT70DHhI

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cdn.faniq.com/images/blog/Texas%2520AM%2520UCLA%2520Foul.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.faniq.com/blog/Photo-of-the-Weekend-UCLA-NonFoul-on-Texas-AMs-Donald-Sloan-Blog-7557&usg=__VEpx-niDvec160UMm8t2Ik3PLhw=&h=575&w=450&sz=43&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=f1C7cmOJ3lh48M:&tbnh=135&tbnw=107&ei=yep4TcKSA8_wsga2v7HuBg&prev=/images%3Fq%3DUCLA%2Bfoul%2BDonald%2BSloan%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1419%26bih%3D706%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=120&vpy=62&dur=2480&hovh=254&hovw=199&tx=116&ty=129&oei=yep4TcKSA8_wsga2v7HuBg&page=1&ndsp=31&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0

[NCAABound]

How do they go to the monitor to check if a shot was a 3 or a 2, but not in this situation?

[SubGod22]

How do they go to the monitor to check if a shot was a 3 or a 2, but not in this situation?

Because NCAA rules say that is reviewable and this is not.

[im4wsu]

There has been talk about traveling, out-of-bounds, and review. Did anybody else notice that the coach was (1) standing on the court during the throw-in (2) was between the coaches box and mid-court when the guy stepped out of bounds and nearly ran into the player, and (3) was across mid court before the horn. Where's the "T" for that?

[wsushox1]

You guys are getting your Higgins's confused.

There is a John Higgins, currently working the Big 12 tournament
and Tim Higgins who is an East Coast/Big East ref.

[wsushox1]

Nevermind, the Higgins mixup has been corrected now.

[shox8498]

My take from this is this........at least the refs acknowledged the fact that they screwed up and withdrew from further tourney involvement.

You'd never see this in the conference that has it in for Wichita State. They can't get off the court quick enough to get to their locker rooms to laugh their collective a$$es off after what they do to us.........over and over again.

[wsushox1]

My take from this is this........at least the refs acknowledged the fact that they screwed up and withdrew from further tourney involvement.

You'd never see this in the conference that has it in for Wichita State. They can't get off the court quick enough to get to their locker rooms to laugh their collective ####es off after what they do to us.........over and over again.

I don't think the officials have anything against Wichita State University.