Did we really just fire Gene Stephenson?

[Veritas]

The clown that fired Gene and rubbed his nose in it never accomplished anything as AD, and has been unceremoniously hidden away.
Gene's gone. Baseball in tatters.
Feel better or worse?

[DUShock]

Good fire, bad hire.

[ShockerFever]

Fascinating read. I think things were rushed and a lot of people piled on the Fire Gene bandwagon because it was the trendy thing to do.

I'll go ahead and quote myself from 3 years ago:

I'm glad more people are happy. That's fine and dandy.

Will they be happy 3 years from now is the question?

I hope everyone is overjoyed.

And judging by the 23 people in the stands on a nightly basis, I'd say... no.

[William]

Well William, we will know by and by.

d

👌

[ShockTalk]

Interesting re-read after time has passed.

The clown that fired Gene and rubbed his nose in it never accomplished anything as AD, and has been unceremoniously hidden away.
Gene's gone. Baseball in tatters.
Feel better or worse?

Fascinating read. I think things were rushed and a lot of people piled on the Fire Gene bandwagon because it was the trendy thing to do.

I'll go ahead and quote myself from 3 years ago:



I hope everyone is overjoyed.

And judging by the 23 people in the stands on a nightly basis, I'd say... no.

Since were in the "living in the past and predicting what if mode" let's just add that we don't know where we would be today if Gene had stayed on or was fired later.

Better record? Probably, but not necessarily improved over his last few years, so most would still not be "overjoyed".

Would the program have improved? It was not headed that way and Gene had become a lame duck coach due to his Top 10 salary and below at-large level teams.

Would we have done better with a different replacement for Gene? Hindsight, most likely. However, most fans wanting a change were hoping for someone from WSU baseball or a coach in waiting situation. Nobody was pushing for Butler, but hired, they were going to back him and the team. Something others could not do and still have not moved on with today.

Might we have hired someone better if we waited a year? Maybe.

While we're using the word clown, that could also describe a head coach who made bad choices with statements (Christensen incident), his relationship, or lack of one, with the athletic department, and personal life decisions that hurt him and the program from a recruiting standpoint and his ability to hang on to his high paying job.

:poster_shocks::poster_wu:

[Veritas]

Since were in the "living in the past and predicting what if mode" let's just add that we don't know where we would be today if Gene had stayed on or was fired later.

Better record? Probably, but not necessarily improved over his last few years, so most would still not be "overjoyed".

Would the program have improved? It was not headed that way and Gene had become a lame duck coach due to his Top 10 salary and below at-large level teams.

Would we have done better with a different replacement for Gene? Hindsight, most likely. However, most fans wanting a change were hoping for someone from WSU baseball or a coach in waiting situation. Nobody was pushing for Butler, but hired, they were going to back him and the team. Something others could not do and still have not moved on with today.

Might we have hired someone better if we waited a year? Maybe.

While we're using the word clown, that could also describe a head coach who made bad choices with statements (Christensen incident), his relationship, or lack of one, with the athletic department, and personal life decisions that hurt him and the program from a recruiting standpoint and his ability to hang on to his high paying job.

:poster_shocks::poster_wu:

Future is difficult to predict, but even Gene's worst season is far superior to the current state of the program.
We can't spin the current state of affairs.

[bleed yellow]

Going to games in Gene's final years felt like being stuck in neutral. The crowd waited and waited for the talent on the field to do something good and every so often they would and manage to win games.

The transmission has been dropped on the Butler era. This team doing anything good ranks up there with Jesus turning water into wine.

[ShockTalk]

Since were in the "living in the past and predicting what if mode" let's just add that we don't know where we would be today if Gene had stayed on or was fired later.

Better record? Probably, but not necessarily improved over his last few years, so most would still not be "overjoyed".

Would the program have improved? It was not headed that way and Gene had become a lame duck coach due to his Top 10 salary and below at-large level teams.

Would we have done better with a different replacement for Gene? Hindsight, most likely. However, most fans wanting a change were hoping for someone from WSU baseball or a coach in waiting situation. Nobody was pushing for Butler, but hired, they were going to back him and the team. Something others could not do and still have not moved on with today.

Might we have hired someone better if we waited a year? Maybe.

While we're using the word clown, that could also describe a head coach who made bad choices with statements (Christensen incident), his relationship, or lack of one, with the athletic department, and personal life decisions that hurt him and the program from a recruiting standpoint and his ability to hang on to his high paying job.

:poster_shocks::poster_wu:

Future is difficult to predict, but even Gene's worst season is far superior to the current state of the program.
We can't spin the current state of affairs.

I believe I agreed that the future is difficult to predict. I also said Gene would have had a better record.

No spinning of current affairs. I even thought a more in-house hire would have been better, then and now.

However, one also cannot get around that Gene was being paid more than one and half times what Butler is making and had his legendary career to help him recruit, yet the program was continuing to head downward. Apparently, you give him a pass that his salary and coaching status should have led to at-large level teams and regular season championships in the Valley most years during those last 5 years?

You also seem to give a pass on the things I mentioned in the last paragraph as not very important.

[Play Angry]

Our average RPI over Gene's last 5 years was a little higher than 77 and the trendline was down. We were in a position for an at-large bid in 0 of those years.

The current situation certainly sucks. However, just because the current hire has worked out poorly so far, that does not mean the decision to get rid of the prior regime was wrong. Top 10 money for Top 100 results does not cut it. Neither does Top 30 money for Top 175 results. Both situations demand a change at the top. Just because the second situation followed on the heels of the first, that does not mean that the first situation should have been left to fester.

Rinse and repeat until we find someone who can harness the program's potential.

[Veritas]

I believe I agreed that the future is difficult to predict. I also said Gene would have had a better record.

No spinning of current affairs. I even thought a more in-house hire would have been better, then and now.

However, one also cannot get around that Gene was being paid more than one and half times what Butler is making and had his legendary career to help him recruit, yet the program was continuing to head downward. Apparently, you give him a pass that his salary and coaching status should have led to at-large level teams and regular season championships in the Valley most years during those last 5 years?

You also seem to give a pass on the things I mentioned in the last paragraph as not very important.

He is not getting a pass. However, a good AD would have addressed the issues in a constructive manner. You do not know whether he was disciplined for any personal affair issues. The relationship with the AD is a two way street. They both got hurt because of the terrible way in which Sexton handled the issue.
Looking at hypotheticals, let us throw in his poor health (back) which restricted his recruiting, or his loyalty, which restricted his over-recruiting or the refusal of cutting players (or coaches) from the program. He had a terrible recruiting year sometime during his last 2 years when a large number of high profile recruits signed a contract instead.
You cannot dismiss the terrible manner in which he was dismissed, nor can you not argue against that the Butler was a terrible replacement.
I would have much rather have had Gene the last 2-4 years until a CiW was replaced him.

It sounds like you were for his immediate dismissal without understanding the risk involved. Your wish and results have now been granted.

Is the program better off or worse?

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

I mean at this point who really gives a ****. Gene is gone. The guy that fired him and hired the wrong guy is gone. The program is in a shitty place and no matter how much rehashing of the past you want to do is going to change that.

[ShockTalk]

He is not getting a pass. However, a good AD would have addressed the issues in a constructive manner. You do not know whether he was disciplined for any personal affair issues. The relationship with the AD is a two way street. They both got hurt because of the terrible way in which Sexton handled the issue.
Looking at hypotheticals, let us throw in his poor health (back) which restricted his recruiting, or his loyalty, which restricted his over-recruiting or the refusal of cutting players (or coaches) from the program. He had a terrible recruiting year sometime during his last 2 years when a large number of high profile recruits signed a contract instead.
You cannot dismiss the terrible manner in which he was dismissed, nor can you not argue against that the Butler was a terrible replacement.
I would have much rather have had Gene the last 2-4 years until a CiW was replaced him.

It sounds like you were for his immediate dismissal without understanding the risk involved. Your wish and results have now been granted.

Is the program better off or worse?

Nope. I have stated many times over the years (yes, prior to Gene dismissal) that I strongly favored a CiW. However, Gene was not going to let Thomas go for a replacement assistant or a CiW that would have had a fire in their belly instead of a rocking chair for their butt.

Let's not lay it all on one AD either. Schaus and Gene did not get alone either. So, ES basically walk into an already made situation. It is also well know that Gene wanted to be left alone and the less contact with the athletic department the better.

As for the bad back, that means JT and BK needed to up their recruiting game. All were paid very, very well. Same goes for his style of loyalty (a loyalty that still cost JT his job). If you're not going to over recruit, cut players, and allow for the risk of players going pro, you best find other ways to counter that "problem". It appears Gene may not have had a good read on his most talented recruits and it's well known that other coaches did not see our coaches on the recruiting trail near as much as they used to.

As for the immediate dismissal, this is kind of like the talk about Butler not knowing his situation. Neither of us know what discussions or attempted discussions went on in prior years or in the year of dismissal. Gene saying he was blindsided by the dismissal is, IMHO, BS. He knew at half a mill salary things could get dicey without results. He may have called their bluff.

And just how were we to have a CiW for 2-4 years if he was not getting rid of anybody? Remember the loyalty you talked about.

There were risks involved firing or keeping Gene. His downward spiral made the job here look tougher and tougher to outsiders. Staying on here without reasonable improvement would only add to the problem. Is the program better off or worse? I'd say worse, but more so because of a hire that hasn't come close to working out. I do think keeping BK on staff for the new hire limited our choices and may have been why the DBU backed out. Don't know.

Too bad Gene and crew didn't stay at OU. Everybody may had been better off without all the drama that followed.

[martymoose]

Interesting re-read after time has passed.

I'm in the group of, Gene needed to go, but obviously we hired the wrong guy. Gene didn't want to make it easy to part ways, but we wouldn't be in Omaha right now if he were still here, so in my opinion it was lose lose for us..

[1972Shocker]

To answer the question posed in the title of this thread: No, we really did not JUST fire Gene Stephenson. He was fired about 3 years ago.

Was that the right thing to do? Who knows but as @Awesome Sauce Malone: so eloquently stated does it really make a difference at this point.

Assuming it was the way to go was it handled well? I would say no but as @ShockTalk: points out who knows what went on behind closed doors between the parties and what kind of atmosphere was created? Was there additional facts and circumstances that none of us are privy to? Maybe, maybe not. Again, who knows?

Did WSU make a good hire in replacing Gene? At this point the answer to that appears to be a resounding no they did not.

Did WSU give Todd Butler a contract that was very good for the coach but very bad for the University? I have to say a resounding HELL YES they did.

What is WSU going to do about at this point? That is the $1.3 million dollar question isn't it?

[ShockerFever]

Eric Sexton may be long gone but he still makes my blood boil.

Worst AD in WSU history.