WSU vs K-State

[WuDrWu]

I won't get dragged into a pissing match here, nor am I looking for one.

I am certainly guilty of high expectations for this team, expectations that have not been reached, not even close.

And I've said many times that no matter how much losing hurts as fans, it's nothing compared to the hurt and frustration felt by players and coaches.

I keep thinking (hoping) we've hit rock bottom....and then here we are.


I believe we have the right people in place to effect change in the program.


And you or anyone is free to contribute high 5 figure donations to baseball or any program you choose, at anytime. The sooner the better. He donated after he was already coach. His contributions to WSU baseball, and WSU athletics in general, have been and continue to be way beyond substantial (and not just monetarily) and at the same time, beyond reproach.

[1972Shocker]

So if I paid enough money to put my name in the bullpen wall, can I be pitching coach too?

If you earned your money from spending 12 years pitching in the majors after a stellar career at your alma mater and a couple years as a college pitching coach I am sure you could. Would that guarantee that you would be a success? No.

[Kung Wu]

If your earned your money from spending 12 years pitching in the majors after a stellar career at your alma mater and a couple years as a college pitching coach I am sure you could. Would that guarantee that you would be a success? No.

No guarantee, but you'd be a pretty damn good bet to make.

[ShockerFever]

No guarantee, but you'd be a pretty damn good bet to make.

You’d be losing that bet at the moment.

[ShockerFever]

I won't get dragged into a pissing match here, nor am I looking for one.

I am certainly guilty of high expectations for this team, expectations that have not been reached, not even close.

And I've said many times that no matter how much losing hurts as fans, it's nothing compared to the hurt and frustration felt by players and coaches.

I keep thinking (hoping) we've hit rock bottom....and then here we are.


I believe we have the right people in place to effect change in the program.


And you or anyone is free to contribute high 5 figure donations to baseball or any program you choose, at anytime. The sooner the better. He donated after he was already coach. His contributions to WSU baseball, and WSU athletics in general, have been and continue to be way beyond substantial (and not just monetarily) and at the same time, beyond reproach.

I generally agree we have the right personnel in place but it sure seems like we do some dumb things. The hitting is catching up to the pitching in terms of bad. How long does it take to turn things around nowadays? I mean the real red flag to me is that while we improved last year, why are we trending so bad this year with mostly everyone back and arguably some more talented players?

Maybe Wedge came into the year knowing it was a throw away year anyway. That’s not what expectations were though. He clearly is favoring his young and new guys over the experience from the previous regime. And are we the worst hitting team in the country with guys in scoring position? Is wedge putting too much pressure on them or something?

[another shocker]

i hope you guys don't **** on eric wedge like you **** on isaac brown after losing to k-state.. you probably don't have any toilet paper left.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

i hope you guys don't **** on eric wedge like you **** on isaac brown after losing to k-state.. you probably don't have any toilet paper left.

[SB Shock]

i hope you guys don't **** on eric wedge like you **** on isaac brown after losing to k-state.. you probably don't have any toilet paper left.

HCIB apologist

[ShockerFever]

i hope you guys don't **** on eric wedge like you **** on isaac brown after losing to k-state.. you probably don't have any toilet paper left.

I like losing.

[WuDrWu]

I generally agree we have the right personnel in place but it sure seems like we do some dumb things. The hitting is catching up to the pitching in terms of bad. How long does it take to turn things around nowadays? I mean the real red flag to me is that while we improved last year, why are we trending so bad this year with mostly everyone back and arguably some more talented players?

Maybe Wedge came into the year knowing it was a throw away year anyway. That’s not what expectations were though. He clearly is favoring his young and new guys over the experience from the previous regime. And are we the worst hitting team in the country with guys in scoring position? Is wedge putting too much pressure on them or something?

Same red flag to me. I don't know anyone that expected anything less than very good from Kocis, Sigrist and Cadena, probably LJ and Stumpy would have been up for discussion. So far, those 5 have produced way below expectations. Cadena being the best of that group but he's hitting south of .220. Is it coaching? Hold the players accountable? Bad luck? I don't know. Those are way above my pay grade but I agree, if it's not concerning (and it is) then at least questions have to be asked.

I guess the frustrating thing to me is that I've seen these guys, on occasion at least, bust tail practicing all the little things that we haven't done well for a decade plus. They were really good at these things last season. They worked just as much if not more on these things coming into this season. And yet we're so much worse at them it's just inexplicable. Now, as a for instance, you can't really expect Andrew Stewart to get better than last year defensively. 2 errors at short. That just does not happen. He's at .973 which is still an elite number for a shortstop and he's improved on his hitting a little .258 OB .342 not great considering no power at all, but very serviceable and a nice jump.

We have NOBODY hitting .300. I've never heard of that in college baseball. Our top 3 average guys are Tolle, Thornhill and Rodden. All new guys. Then Ingram (who leads the world in strikeouts with 47 in just 144ABs) and Stewart. As you said, we're beyond statistical anomalies bad in hitting with RISP and worse less than 2 outs same. I could go on and on but I don't get it. If you would have told me prior to game 1 that we get almost nothing from Kocis, Sigrist, Stroh, Cadena, Stevens, LJ and Stumpy I first would have suggested you seek mental health assistance, but if you could prove it, I would say we're about 5-32 right now. How could we win any games without those guys?

Again, I just don't get it. I know the expectations were post season. At least post season. Maybe the complete stumble out of the blocks destroyed what probably were fragile beliefs from kids that haven't succeeded at the college level yet. And we've never recovered. IDK. I wish it was better. I know it should be better. These guys should be playing better. And I have no doubt it's 100 times more frustrating for them than it is for us.

****, we get a ground rule double that costs us a run. We get ANOTHER base running blunder that costs us probably 2 runs. We pitch really well in 7 of 8 innings last night but in the one we don't, they drop 7 on FOUR ****ING SINGLES, one of which doesn't leave the infield. How is that even possible? Well....4 walks, 5 stolen bases, 2 wild pitches, an error, 2 other balls misplayed, an over throw and there you have it.....seven ****ing runs on four ****ing singles. Only us.

[SHOCKvalue]

I realize it's early in the Wedge era but what the eff is going on? And don't just say we're young. This is embarrassing.

Meh... really not THAT early. Concern is justified. Unless of course you're AD Boatright, in which case it is fair winds and following seas... at least to the few folks in the inner circle who warrant sharing disclosure of such.

[BostonWu]

It's gotta be something behind the scenes no one outside the clubhouse can see...like EW is playing mind games sacrificing current performance for the good of the program. It's something mental.

[WstateU]

It's gotta be something behind the scenes no one outside the clubhouse can see...like EW is playing mind games sacrificing current performance for the good of the program. It's something mental.

I don’t think you’re too far off. I’ve listened to his coaches show on several occasions. I know this sounds crazy and sunshine pumpish, but he seems to have a plan… just needs the ‘right’ horses to pull the wagon.

[1972Shocker]

I think losing Corrigan Bartlett, Paxton Wallace, and Hunter Gibson from the lineup along with Garrett Kocis' and Jack Sigriist's inability to regain their pre0imjury form along with Cornblum (231 vs .285) and Cadena (.240 vs .274) reduced production has really hurt the offense.

As far as the pitching goes only Jace Kaminska and Ryan Stuempfig had what you would call good numbers last year among the returning arms. Cameron Holden has done a nice job replacing Aaron Haase as the closer. But both Jace and especially Ryan have regressed this year. Payton has been okay, but may not pitch again this spring. Camron Bye has been the one guy who as stepped up big. Unfortunately, so much so that he probably will not be back next year.

The thing is, we were betting that some returning players would make a big jump this year and perhaps some of the newcomers would be effective. Actually Tolle, Thornhil. Rodden and Holden have indeed been decent additions. Xavier Casserilla has been a bit of a disappointment but I think he is getting a little better. But outside of Cameron Bye and perhaps Andrew Stewart the returning players have mostly regressed this year.

The big question, as WuDrWu points out, is why this is the case?

Perhaps the much tougher schedule assemble for this year is having some impact. In Ross Cadena's case I just wonder he if just hasn't been pretty much used up physically. But otherwise the play of most of the returning players is a bit of a mystery.

At this point I still think we have enough to be more or less competitive in AAC play on the weekends assuming our offense can wake up. But as the AAC stats I posted the other day show our offense has been a real drag in AAC play. And it doesn't look to me like it is because of the pitching in the AAC is outstanding this year. Midweek games will probably continue to disappoint as we simply don't seem to have the pitching depth especially against the quality of teams on the mid-week schedule.

A number of posters claim help is on the way next year. Let's hope so, but projecting how good a recruiting class will be, as often as not, leads to expectations that prove to be overly optimistic. I hope these posters prove to be accurate with their assessments this time. I think it is very important that we see some major improvement nest year.

[1972Shocker]

I don’t think you’re too far off. I’ve listened to his coaches show on several occasions. I know this sounds crazy and sunshine pumpish, but he seems to have a plan… just needs the ‘right’ horses to pull the wagon.

There is no doubt that HCEW knows baseball at the highest level and that he is an excellent leader. However, playing the devil's advocate, it's possible that experience as a major league manager may or may not be of great value when it comes to coaching undeveloped and underdeveloped college kids. The player a major league manager has to work with don't really need that much development work. That job is probably largely one of managing egos.

Perhaps, someone like Kevin Hooper who cut his managing teeth at the helm of the independent Wingnuts where he had to find players and develop them and then working as a traveling coach in player development for the Padres would have provided a better background for what is needed at Wichita State and would have been a better choice. But it was hard to argue with bringing someone like Eric Wedge in. It could be that if Eric can't get it done then it just isn't going to get done.