The illusion that was KSU football

[bleed yellow]

Been hearing a lot of people referring to Bill Snyder as the Wizard that can still save the day.. I will give him this, he is a Wizard that indeed created a illusion of KSU football. He's never won a BCS bowl game and won the Big 12 a hand full of times many years ago.
Yet that fan base is loyal. Brain washed seems like a better term right now. The implosion that none of their fans thought was possible under Snyder's watch is in progress. He probably retires after this season.

[WuDrWu]

Not sure I'd go there....He's overachieved a lot with limited talent. What is Hubner, like the 4th QB on the depth chart? I'm not saying he's the best coach of all time or that he's got 20 years left but still.....

[Shocker-maniac]

I'm in no way a KSU fan, but I have a ton of respect for Snyder. This season may be just an aberration. We shall see.

[The Mad Hatter]

Let's be clear, Snyder isn't a fraud. Acting like not winning a BCS game or a recent B12 championship makes him a fraud ignores the most important fact about Bill Snyder:

In the absence of Bill Snyder it is inconceivable that KSU would have ever sniffed anywhere near being in a BCS game or being conference champions.

People need to understand how bad KSU historically has been at football.

Even when you include the years Snyder has coached, KSU's school record in football sits at 506-626-41 for a winning percentage of .449. To put that in perspective, KU has a school winning percentage of .490. Even better, WSU still has a better all-time winning percentage than KSU, even with Snyder, at .484.

When you subtract Snyder's 190-98-1 record, KSU's non-Snyder winning percentage drops to .380, that is winning barely more that one third of their games all time without Snyder as a coach, but winning roughly two thirds of their games under Snyder (.659). The only FBS schools with all-time winning percentages lower than the non-Snyder .380 are Georgia State (.193) and FIU (.305) who have been in FBS for 5 and 13 years respectively.

The problem is that there are plenty of young KSU fans who are under the mistaken impression that Snyder is great because he has turned them into a national powerhouse. That isn't true. He hasn't and it would be wildly unrealistic to expect that. What makes him great is not turning KSU into a national contender but turning arguably the worst D1 football school in NCAA football history into anything respectable.

Make fun of the insane expectations of KSU fans all you want, but never mistake what Snyder has done there as anything but an absolute miracle.

[bleed yellow]

Let's be clear, Snyder isn't a fraud. Acting like not winning a BCS game or a recent B12 championship makes him a fraud ignores the most important fact about Bill Snyder:

In the absence of Bill Snyder it is inconceivable that KSU would have ever sniffed anywhere near being in a BCS game or being conference champions.

People need to understand how bad KSU historically has been at football.

Even when you include the years Snyder has coached, KSU's school record in football sits at 506-626-41 for a winning percentage of .449. To put that in perspective, KU has a school winning percentage of .490. Even better, WSU still has a better all-time winning percentage than KSU, even with Snyder, at .484.

When you subtract Snyder's 190-98-1 record, KSU's non-Snyder winning percentage drops to .380, that is winning barely more that one third of their games all time without Snyder as a coach, but winning roughly two thirds of their games under Snyder (.659). The only FBS schools with all-time winning percentages lower than the non-Snyder .380 are Georgia State (.193) and FIU (.305) who have been in FBS for 5 and 13 years respectively.

The problem is that there are plenty of young KSU fans who are under the mistaken impression that Snyder is great because he has turned them into a national powerhouse. That isn't true. He hasn't and it would be wildly unrealistic to expect that. What makes him great is not turning KSU into a national contender but turning arguably the worst D1 football school in NCAA football history into anything respectable.

Make fun of the insane expectations of KSU fans all you want, but never mistake what Snyder has done there as anything but an absolute miracle.

Don't get me wrong, it's going to be sad watching the KSU fan base turn on Snyder. Snyder is a classy guy, everything else KSU is complete garbage. But honestly, how many other "decent coach that never won the big game" situations can you name in all of sports?
Snyder just stuck with KSU for too long. He should have taken a coordinator job at a big time football school after the 1998 season. What he's done at KSU is phenomenal, but does he or KSU have anything to actually show for it? No. Will his tenure end on a good note? Highly doubtful.

[Dave Stalwart]

I thought this already happened once before. Snyder struggled for a couple seasons, he retired and KSU hired Ron Prince. Prince immediately reminded everyone of what kstate football is like otherwise. Then, they bring back Snyder and he gets them ranked #1 again. To me, that removed any doubt I had about Snyder. He revived that program AGAIN when called upon.

I'd look at this current situation and compare it to when he lost heart and retired before. He will have them good again if he stays. It may not be a constant though. Kstate and Snyder are like UNI and Jacobsen in a way. The coaching is great throughout but you may have to build to a peak from time to time rather than constantly reload.

[ArtVandalay]

I respect Snyder and the notes he writes to other players and teams is pure class. KSU certainly has an unwarranted ego when it comes to football and think they have been and are better then they actually have been. Even KU managed to win a BCS Bowl game in the few seasons they were decent. As KSU is in the midst of more mediocrity, they are set to throw millions of dollars into stadium renovations. The product on the field better get better quickly, or it may get ugly in a hurry, and Snyder may leave with a bruised ego.

[wufan]

This thread is way off base. In the late 80s and early 90s KSU was the worst team in the history of football. He took them to multiple BCS games and top 10 seasons. How can someone not respect that or act like this current season defines his career?

[Dave Stalwart]

No kidding. And bowl games are great and all, but winning the conference kinda matters too. Being ranked at all still matters. Judging his career by pointing to his bowl game success is not necessarily that important, even though it would obviously be cool to be winning all the time in the post season. The fact that anyone has the luxury of being able to forget or even not witness (if you are young) how bad KSU really was is a more of a testament to Snyder than people might realize.

I mean, kstate was as bad as Missouri state this season :)

[DUShock]

I appreciate @bleed yellow: passion for Wichita State but Synder's record and turn around in the Lil' Apple is impressive and worthy of respect from sports lovers regardless of university pedigree.

[bleed yellow]

How can someone not respect that or act like this current season defines his career?[/QUOTE]

Even despite the injuries, it's the implosion that the KSU fan base believed to be impossible under Snyder's watch. In their particular situation it could define the end of Snyder's reign.
He's 76, he could retire at the end of the season. And even if he doesn't retire, if they can't figure out a way to bring the magic back next year, he will be forced to retire. With all those stadium improvements they are making, ksu doesn't have time to wait and their a.d. has a horrible reputation of handling coaches.
Their fans are just in shock now because as I already stated this implosion wasn't supposed to be possible under Snyder. And it's a fresh reminder that even when good, Snyder's team don't have fall very far to be bad.

[ArtVandalay]

I think it's less about Snyder (great coach, better person), more about the "wait til football season" fan base and administration that pours millions into a program stuck in the position of being currently irrelavent in all major sports in a conference torn by realignment and not looking at all appealing to potential further realignment.

[Dave Stalwart]

I think it's less about Snyder (great coach, better person), more about the "wait til football season" fan base and administration that pours millions into a program stuck in the position of being currently irrelavent in all major sports in a conference torn by realignment and not looking at all appealing to potential further realignment.

Okay I'll give you this

[RoyalShock]

I went to a game vs. OU there back in the mid-90s. (KSU beat them handily) I've been there a few times for marching band festivals since then, including last night. The facilities improvements alone are incredible. And that's solely due to Snyder.

[Steeleshocker]

Keep in mind that this team is falling apart because of injuries and STILL had a chance to beat Oklahoma State on the road and absolutely had #2 TCU on the ropes and failed to land a knockout punch. This all occurred using a bunch of backups. I think those two heartbreakers had a hangover effect the last couple of weeks.