Self to Thunder, anyone?

[Shock Top]

I kind of disagree. I think Mark was extremely happy here. I think he listened (in my opinion only) too much to people in coaching that he respected instead what was in his heart. I think he did (and continues to do) what he thinks others think he should do, more than what he does for himself.

Mark hasn't accepted what Gregg clearly lives....don't mess with happy. Neither man will ever spend what they've earned in their lifetimes. They are both too disciplined and frugal to do that.

One man is really, REALLY happy. The other, I think, is content, but looking for happy. Just my opinion.

Okay, maybe I was a little over the top! ;)

I believe, in retrospect, he thinks he made a mistake going to TA&M.

[shoxlax]

This whole thread gives me chill bumps at the thought of them sweating they are going to lose their coach

[shocka khan]

Okay, maybe I was a little over the top! ;)

I believe, in retrospect, he thinks he made a mistake going to TA&M.

I absolutely think, in retrospect, he thought he made a mistake. During his last season, he called the fans out for not filling up Reed Arena early in the season. A&M is clearly a football-first school (Makes me wonder what would have happened if HCGM had taken the head coaching job @ Alabama).

He had built a very successful team at A&M and I think the primary reason he went to Maryland was a lack of fan support. He's building the same kind of team at Maryland and I would guess has a few more years there, so long as he can build on this season's successes.

[Dupe]

This whole thread gives me chill bumps at the thought of them sweating they are going to lose their coach

We certainly know what it feels like lately. Self has been around a long time and done nothing but win. He might be more ready for a move than KU fans would like to think. He's won a title. He's dominated that average conference for a decade. Maybe he's getting a little too comfortable. I can see the logic in jumping while you are on top...especially when you've got the greatest coach in college basketball dealing blow after blow to the brand for the last couple years.

[bleed yellow]

We certainly know what it feels like lately. Self has been around a long time and done nothing but win. He might be more ready for a move than KU fans would like to think. He's won a title. He's dominated that average conference for a decade. Maybe he's getting a little too comfortable. I can see the logic in jumping while you are on top...especially when you've got the greatest coach in college basketball dealing blow after blow to the brand for the last couple years.

If kind of an awkward time for all of this OKC coaching vacancy business to flare up. Yes, Calapari has been demolishing Self the past couple times they've met. But that is just the tip of the ice berg, as much as ku fans hate to admit it.. Calapari has been demolishing Self lately because of a glaring recruiting problem in Lawrence.
I've been over hearing their fans rant on and on about it the past 2 years. Now it's been 3 years since Self reached the Sweet 16? It might not be that he's ready for a move because he's won so much, but rather he's feeling some heat from bad recruiting decisions lately.

[jdshock]

I don't think Self is a good enough coach to get an NBA offer. He is a poor in-game coach. I think he is only average at best at developing strategies/scouting other teams. He is an excellent recruiter. He is a good developer of talent. In the NBA, strategy and in-game coaching are the most important aspects.

[wu_shizzle]

He is a good developer of talent. In the NBA, strategy and in-game coaching are the most important aspects.

Danny Manning made their bigs better.

How many guards got better at KU?

[WuShock16]

(Makes me wonder what would have happened if HCGM had taken the head coaching job @ Alabama).

Since Gregg is a straight shooter, I almost wish I could hear a press conference of him at Texas or Alabama after the first time a big-name opponent was met with a lackluster-attended crowd.

"WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? YOU SAID IT WAS ***ING BIG TIME HERE! THAT CROWD ****ING SUCKED TONIGHT! WE HAD WICHITA STATE, THE NUMBER ****ING ONE TEAM IN THE COUNTRY, IN OUR BUILDING TONIGHT (I know, I know...but let's have fun with this), AND WE HAD HALF THE BUILDING EMPTY! WHAT THE **** DO YOU PEOPLE WANT? WHEN I WAS AT WICHITA STATE, THEY PACKED THEIR ARENA WHEN A ****ING DIVISION 2 SCHOOL CAME TO PLAY! YOU PEOPLE ARE ****ING PATHETIC! MAJOR PROGRAM, MY ***! DON'T GIVE ME THAT ****** EXCUSE THAT IT IS STILL ****ING FOOTBALL SEASON! SABAN'S/STRONG'S BOYS DIDN'T PLAY TONIGHT! GET YOUR ***** OUT TO WATCH US PLAY OR I'M ****ING OUT OF HERE!"

[jdshock]

Danny Manning made their bigs better.

How many guards got better at KU?

Oof, you list off a bunch of reasons why a guy is a bad coach and the one positive you write gets hounded. But since you asked:

First of all, Danny Manning may have been responsible for their bigs developing, but that doesn’t mean Self won’t get any of the credit. This is particularly true for Withey who had a remarkable season the year after Manning left.

Second, I’ll answer your question about non-bigs. I think Brandon Rush was certainly better as a senior than he was as a freshman. I think most would agree with that. With some of the other guards, it’s tough to analyze how much better they got. Chalmers was definitely better as a senior than he was as a freshman. He was super highly rated by recruiting services, though. It’s “easier” to develop a guy ranked 150 into a top 100 player than it is to develop a top-5 player into the number one guy, right? There’s just more room for movement. Tyshawn Taylor wasn’t a smart player most of the time, but he did lead them to a national championship game his senior year. He was mediocre freshman-junior years, but his senior year he went off in regards to scoring.

I don’t know. I guess I feel a little dirty having to defend Self on this. I said he was “good” at player development and listed a bunch of things he was bad at as explanations for why he won’t get an NBA job. It feels like you’re just being a contrarian for the sake of picking a fight, since… ya know… we both agree on the overall premise.

[wu_shizzle]

Oof, you list off a bunch of reasons why a guy is a bad coach and the one positive you write gets hounded. But since you asked:

First of all, Danny Manning may have been responsible for their bigs developing, but that doesn’t mean Self won’t get any of the credit. This is particularly true for Withey who had a remarkable season the year after Manning left.

Second, I’ll answer your question about non-bigs. I think Brandon Rush was certainly better as a senior than he was as a freshman. I think most would agree with that. With some of the other guards, it’s tough to analyze how much better they got. Chalmers was definitely better as a senior than he was as a freshman. He was super highly rated by recruiting services, though. It’s “easier” to develop a guy ranked 150 into a top 100 player than it is to develop a top-5 player into the number one guy, right? There’s just more room for movement. Tyshawn Taylor wasn’t a smart player most of the time, but he did lead them to a national championship game his senior year. He was mediocre freshman-junior years, but his senior year he went off in regards to scoring.

I don’t know. I guess I feel a little dirty having to defend Self on this. I said he was “good” at player development and listed a bunch of things he was bad at as explanations for why he won’t get an NBA job. It feels like you’re just being a contrarian for the sake of picking a fight, since… ya know… we both agree on the overall premise.

No argument from me, I think you're pretty much right on.

I wouldn't disagree that Travis Releford got better under Self.

[ShockdaWorld]

I often wonder how good of a recruiter Self really is. The name on the front of those jerseys should be able to recruit at least as well as the big time ACC schools and UK shouldn't they? But yet, it seems those schools always have freshmen that are BIG TIME contributors and competing for Player of the Year honors. Is he just not as good of a talent evaluator as the coaches at those schools, or are they getting the kids they want and leaving him the leftovers? I know he is still getting one and done players, but (at least in the past few years) haven't seemed to be on the same level as some of the other "blue bloods" recruits.

[jdshock]

I often wonder how good of a recruiter Self really is. The name on the front of those jerseys should be able to recruit at least as well as the big time ACC schools and UK shouldn't they? But yet, it seems those schools always have freshmen that are BIG TIME contributors and competing for Player of the Year honors. Is he just not as good of a talent evaluator as the coaches at those schools, or are they getting the kids they want and leaving him the leftovers? I know he is still getting one and done players, but (at least in the past few years) haven't seemed to be on the same level as some of the other "blue bloods" recruits.

Landing Embiid and Wiggins was as good of a freshmen tandem as anyone has had outside of UK in the last few years. Oubre and Alexander this year were certainly a step below guys like Okafar and Towns. Ben McLemore was probably around that same level as Oubre and Alexander, but I don't remember that much about his recruiting. He had some grade problems I think. I don't know. I don't think too many people have had more big time freshman than KU -- outside of UK, obviously -- lately.

I do think you're right that he's not as good at talent evaluation. I remember Xavier Henry and Josh Selby being disappointments at KU despite being highly touted. Both got drafted pretty high, though, so that might go to @wu_shizzle:'s point about lack of talent development. Maybe it's a combination of talent development and maybe it's a combination of motivation, but he certainly struggles to get guys like Oubre, Alexander, Selby, and Henry to give their full effort.

[bleed yellow]

Landing Embiid and Wiggins was as good of a freshmen tandem as anyone has had outside of UK in the last few years. Oubre and Alexander this year were certainly a step below guys like Okafar and Towns. Ben McLemore was probably around that same level as Oubre and Alexander, but I don't remember that much about his recruiting. He had some grade problems I think. I don't know. I don't think too many people have had more big time freshman than KU -- outside of UK, obviously -- lately.

I do think you're right that he's not as good at talent evaluation. I remember Xavier Henry and Josh Selby being disappointments at KU despite being highly touted. Both got drafted pretty high, though, so that might go to @wu_shizzle:'s point about lack of talent development. Maybe it's a combination of talent development and maybe it's a combination of motivation, but he certainly struggles to get guys like Oubre, Alexander, Selby, and Henry to give their full effort.

Self relies on the KU brand getting the most out of his players. If they don't buy into the brand, they end up panning out like Josh Selby..

[ShockdaWorld]

Self relies on the KU brand getting the most out of his players. If they don't buy into the brand, they end up panning out like Josh Selby..

This is kind of what I meant. Is he really a good recruiter, or is it just the name on the front of the jersey that does most of the recruiting. I honestly don't pay enough attention to KU to know for sure.

[ShockerGorilla]

Wichita State had a big hand in Self landing Andrew Wiggins since we had his big brother just down the road.